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Trusting school?

22 replies

Skylar123 · 06/11/2013 00:43

I accept this may sound a little weird but does anyone know if there is a way that I can get my Ds levels checked independently (reading, writing, maths) as I do not trust completely what his school is telling me. Ever since Ds dx his levels have jumped greatly and improved. If this is correct this is wonderful but how do I check this is the truth.Thank you in advance for any help and info.ive reposted this from education

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Spiraling · 06/11/2013 12:55

Could you not do some scholfields and sims books they have a whole range set at different key stages and see how he does and use this as a guide. Can view them on amazon.

They told me ds was doing great, but when his end of year report came, clearly not so great. But I guess considering his issues it was, but really not very helpful!

Shellywelly1973 · 06/11/2013 13:33

As Spiraling duggested...

I had the oppisite problem. The school & LA were insisting ds could read or right. The term unassailable & un able to educate were used to describe ds.

Ds is now doing maths GCSE work in numeracy. Slightly above NC level in litracy. He's in an independent AS School paid for by the LA rather than the local ss school. If the local school hsd met ds needsbi eould have sent him there but he doesn't have any learning difficulties. Just ASD & ADHD...

I don't trust school's!

Skylar123 · 06/11/2013 14:29

I don't trust schools, not our one. DS has apparently jumped 3 sub levels Over the summer break. Maybe this is true but I'm not so sure! Before dx he was well below it below NC now he is gunning through like noones business he is intelligent I just want to make sure it's correct.
I will try those books thank you to both of you

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sweetteamum · 06/11/2013 21:23

I'm actually in a similar situation. Since I've queried ds's levels less, than a year ago, ds is doing remarkably well and gone up more than 4 sub levels!

uggerthebugger · 06/11/2013 22:47

Pretty much the only thing you can trust about assessments based on NC levels in state schools is that they are likely to be bollocks. Same goes for what they say about rates of progress.

The likelihood that the levels you've been given are bollocks jumps to near-certainty if the school is primary, if it has recently been in special measures, or if it has been rated outstanding by Ofsted. The assessment system schools use is wide open to abuse, and every incentive is there for schools to abuse it.

Do you just want to check DS's progress for your own piece of mind, or do you need independent evidence to support a case? Either way, there are tests out there that are much more rigorous and less prone to gaming than teacher assessment - but if it's evidence you're after, then you'll need a professional to run them and assess them.

Here's an example - DS1 has a pretty severe language disorder, dx'd by four separate professionals. At the end of Y6, independent testing showed that he had a reading age of 6yrs 5 months (Edinburgh Reading Test), and an understanding of grammar roughly equivalent to that of a pre-schooler (TROG-2). According to these independent tests, he was 5 years behind his peers in most areas, and further behind in some.

According to the school's data though, everything was going swimmingly. DS1's school gave him a Level 4 for reading in his Y6 SATs, after apparently making a metronomic 2 sub-levels of progress each year. Their data was complete and utter cock, every last fabricated bit of it.

2boysnamedR · 06/11/2013 23:08

No experience with schools levels yet but my nhs salt report was a bit suspect so I had it re done privately. The private report was bad. Ds is 2.5 years delayed where as nhs said six months. Private test showed that a pre school test had been used on my 5.10 year old. So it was at least a year to young for him, then I think they fudged it to get him off the nhs books. Helpful eh?

Skylar123 · 06/11/2013 23:22

Oh dear! What an absolute joke all this is. Just don't know who to trust anymore. Our salt report was a load of tosh too. I haven't done private one but the sch senco said Ds was being referred to another one who specialises in ASD. I must chase that up.

So once sch knows your on the case suddenly things start looking up...how strange! HT made a beeline for me a few months back across the playground telling me how wonderfully my Ds was and how great he was at reading with his new high level. I felt like slapping her! Horrible but true.
So what is the best way to get this sorted...I don't need levels to support anything as yet I'm not applying for SA as I'm not sure if I need too yet as I haven't a clue what the true picture is at school which is why I need to know where my Ds is really at.
I'm worried we will get to year 6 (now year 3) and it will all become apparent that Ds is so far behind.
Uggerthebugger what was you able to do with the evidence you had re the sch levels being incorrect through independent tests.

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wetaugust · 07/11/2013 00:09

The only way to find out is to consult a private Ed Pysch and get them to run their battery of tests.

I certainly would not trust school.

uggerthebugger · 07/11/2013 06:47

Skylar, basically the independent test results allowed us to argue that DS1 needed much more help than he was getting. He was about to start secondary, and the LA argued that a mainstream placement would do the job, because the school's data showed that he was doing OK.

The independent testing looked at his non-verbal intelligence too - they showed that he was unusually bright in many areas. This helped, because we could then say he was definitely capable of doing well with the right support.

After a long fight, DS1 is now at an independent special school, where he's catching up fast in his key areas of SEN and is now a couple of years ahead in other areas.

It's easy to blame his primary school here, but it's the system at fault. The pressures on the school from the LA and Ofsted were such that if the school had been honest with the levels (for NT kids as well as kids with SEN) then its future would have been at risk. If ever other school is fiddling the levels, then what do you stand to gain as a Head by being honest?

Tbh, if you can spare the money I'd get these reports sorted as soon as you can.

2boysnamedR · 07/11/2013 07:39

My son has been refered to asd speech specialist too but in not dropping his private slt. I wish I had gone private sooner if only for peace of mind it's worth the cost. Also if the asd nhs slt says he not too bad I can ask them why the private says he is 2.5 years delayed. Knowledge is power. You don't have to every independent test done at the same time. Just pick the one you need the most right now and start from there

Skylar123 · 07/11/2013 19:17

Thank you all. Uggerthebugger...was this fight with LA when you was going through statmenting process? Thanks for your useful comments I totally agree with you.
2boysnamedR ...you have both a paid and private asd salt?
Wetaugust...we have seen a private ed psych before I will get back onto him. Can they check levels? What type if test am I asking for? We have had 2 private tests done in the past one being the ADOS we are still waiting on nhS CDAC to dx in feb . My concern right now is that the school are bluffing me . I need to get out my private reports and get my head into gear. It's just one battle after another I sometimes feel I can't face it but I have to for my son. I'm so worries that a few years down the line it will all become apparent and I will hate myself for little it ride. Thank you all for your comments

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wetaugust · 08/11/2013 00:26

Can't remember the Ed Pysch test names Skylar but there are some that can tell you how you what age/levels your child is functioining at in reading, comprehension etc.

Just ask for tests that identify his strengths and weaknesses and identify his profile.

Can anyone on here suggest some tests for Skylar to ask her EP for please?

yvolution123 · 08/11/2013 05:57

This is a very important feature and it really requires considering lots of factors because a right almamater shapes the future of todays kids.

Skylar123 · 08/11/2013 09:03

Thank you I will look into it further.
Ds is refusing to go
Into school today, what a mess !

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uggerthebugger · 08/11/2013 17:52

Hi Skylar hope you got through today in one piece...

Here's some tests that might help. I don't honestly know if all of them are suitable for your DC's needs or whether they are suitable for an 7-8 year old - my 2 DSs have had them done between the ages of 9 and 11 - but here goes:

Edinburgh Reading Test
York Assessment of Reading & Comprehension
British Ability Scales II (non-verbal ability)
Connected Discourse Tracking (receptive language / auditory processing)
ACE - Assessment of Comprehension & Expression (receptive / expressive language)
CELF-4 - Clinical Evaluation of Language Fundamentals (receptive / expressive language)
TROG-2 - Test for Reception of Grammar
British Picture Vocabulary Test
PETAL - Phonological Evaluation & Transcription of Audio-visual Language (speech intelligibility)

uggerthebugger · 08/11/2013 17:56

Oops, forgot to answer your first question... DS1 already had a statement when we locked horns with the LA. The dispute kicked off when we wanted to review the statement before he started secondary. The fight was about getting him a more accurate description of his needs, more provision to meet those needs, and a school that could meet them.

Skylar123 · 09/11/2013 22:24

Thank you so much! I will be looking into those assessments above.

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2boysnamedR · 09/11/2013 22:42

My son will continue with private slt but the asd specialist slt will be nhs. Nhs do not know I am having private slt. I don't know how long I will wait for the nhs slt or if it will be any good. So far his four years of nhs slt have been totally useless

Skylar123 · 10/11/2013 00:02

I'm sorry to hear that I do hope you get somewhere with it for you and your Ds. I looked into private asd salt and wasn't too highly priced but it's hard to know who the good ones are and are not.
Our nhs salt gave us some social stories some recommendations to school and said Ds had trouble with inference and nuances (spelt wrong sorry) poor topic maintenance but not at all far behind in speech and language and sent us packing. Good luck

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MyFabulousBoys · 10/11/2013 01:13

I no longer trust schools.They told us that DS was doing marvellously and making so much progress last year despite his SN being so badly managed. Was he shite.

Skylar123 · 10/11/2013 11:01

Not good. How did you realise this was the case?

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bjkmummy · 11/11/2013 15:22

no I wouldn't trust them either - elder son left primary on NC levels of 2 - clearly behind but we knew that anyway. the local mainstream secondary said on those levels they could meet his needs but I dug my heels in and hes now in a special school - now year 8 just had his annual review and hes gone from level 2 to P levels - he has now made no progress since he started school in reception.

daughter who is 10 and just been dx with severe dyslexia - school say shes on NC level 2 - again behind - however the independent EP report puts her much further behind and so on it goes.....

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