Please or to access all these features

SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

ABA on The Wright Stuff grrrrrr

22 replies

lottieandmia · 05/11/2013 10:31

The title is

'Autism cure? Treat kids like dogs!' Angry

WTF?? The ignorance is still as bad as ever I see.

OP posts:
FreshWest · 05/11/2013 10:45

Very misleading title IMO given that they're trying to discuss it in a positive way. Wright said that its worded that way by the media and he's trying to clear any ignorance Hmm Change your headline then boyo!

bochead · 05/11/2013 11:07

Actually it's mainstream that has treated my child like a dog at times.

This is caring carrot propoganda of the worst, most damaging type. ABA. sensory therapy and other well researched therapies and teaching methods offer our kids a future.

The UK adult functional literacy and numeracy rate + our prison population and mental health are all nothing to be proud of. Care in the community is a joke!

Every individual who can be helped to be productive and independent to the full potential of their own abilities as possible is less of a long term burden on ALL of society. This means there will be more in the pot for those who really can't do anything for themselves at the most severe end of the disability spectrum. As it is I see broken, wasted lives all around me.

lottieandmia · 05/11/2013 12:03

I completely agree. My daughter is severely autistic and had no language at 2. When I took her to a child development assessment centre for children with special needs, she was the only one there who was impossible to teach anything to because she wouldn't sit down for more than 3 seconds. All she could do was spin around the outside of the room. Yet whenever I mentioned ABA to anyone, the response I got was comments about 'loons' and secretin injections - these things said by a paediatrician. I couldn't find anyone except other parents doing ABA who took us seriously. It seems to me that 8 years on and nothing much has changed...

OP posts:
sammythemummy · 05/11/2013 13:21

I watched it and couldnt understand what point the second lady on the phone was trying to make, she agreed with a rewards and punishement system but thought ABA was ignorant Confused i dont think she knew what she was saying either.

frizzcat · 05/11/2013 14:38

I didn't watch this tbh, MW makes me want to heat a poker and brand myself!
I had never heard of ABA until I came on this board, after that I researched it and what I realised ALL children are parented in a way that has its basis in ABA. Positive reward for good behaviour and negative for misbehaviour/inappropriate behaviour. The difference with ABA for our children is that it's more intensive and behaviour is closely monitored and recorded, reviewed and parenting is adjusted accordingly, oh and the small fact that our dc will have to practise that same appropriate behaviour so that it becomes intuitive. The NT parent may only have to reward negatively/positively once to see appropriate behaviour - but hey that would be because their dc are NT and ours have additional needs.
Based on this observation I am amazed by the ignorance around ABA, and I've often used the above example as to how actually our whole societal rules have a basis in ABA or vice versa.

I find their reference to "a dog" quite ironic even amusing. I wonder whether they harped back to "Pavlov's dog" experiment.

Now here is my amusement, if a dog behaves inappropriately it is the owners fault for not training it properly, which is followed by fear and ignorance and massive assumptions made of an entire breed of dog - does any of this sound familiar? I know I've faced judgement and ignorance of this kind.

I guess what I'm saying is that ABA is pretty integral to the make up of our society, if we don't train/teach our dc, how will they learn? So to those that say its wrong, well darling I say you've experienced the basics of ABA, it's how your learned.

As Boc says if we don't engage and support and villify and such attempts to do so, we will have to accept a significant number of people dependent on the state, where as if there had been focused, measurable and consistent intervention early there could have been a more positive outcome.

I would also like to see some legal enforcement of how disabilities and their treatments can be discussed. Currently UK broadcasting rules dictate that any medical information broadcast be it in the news or a TV drama is that they can only transmit facts (House, would not have been allowed to be made here). Medical practitioners are employed by dramas and you will often see pratitioners commenting on news programmes. And yet when it comes to such things like ASD ADHD MS and the like we can have a by-line in a topical shit show where by the average ignorant twonk will have by assumed they we feed our children from a dog bowl and de-flea them. That headline wouldn't have been allowed for a medical discussion, it's inflammatory, sensationalist and actually what else do you expect from MW.

BTW - I don't use an ABA program with my ds.

lougle · 05/11/2013 14:57

It depends how you treat dogs. ABA is similar to some dog training methods. You can clicker train dogs, cats, goldfish, horses, even chickens. And people. They call it tag teach.

I suppose it's how you view dogs that will determine if it's an insult or an accolade. My dog gets treated like a King Grin

frizzcat · 05/11/2013 15:10

I agree Lougle we train/teach children and animals alike.
However in MW case this headline was I feel, looking for shock value, and that's unhelpful, especially for those people battling with anti-ABA professionals, schools and LA's. There will be those people who's first introduction to ABA will be in the same sentence as dog training, which makes it harder to pull them back to established facts/results.

Does your pooch have a throne? Smile

sickofsocalledexperts · 05/11/2013 15:22

Actually despite the title this ended up quite a pro-ABA piece, with even host Matthew Wright quite embarrassed at the sensationalised tagline

frizzcat · 05/11/2013 16:10

Good to hear sick. I just can't watch him or that program

sickofsocalledexperts · 05/11/2013 16:35

I found it quite odd yet good to see Matthew Wright, Anne Diamond and X-factor hunk Matt Cardle in a positive discussion of ABA. Reckon that is mainstream media taking an interest at last, and Virginia Bovell was great!

lougle · 05/11/2013 17:12

My pooch makes his own throne Wink He takes available materials (blankets, coats, abandoned jumpers....not fussy) and arranges them with his paws and his teeth until he's made a comfortable pillow for his head (I kid you not). Then he tests it to see if it meets his standards and slumbers. If if doesn't, he repeats the process.

AgnesDiPesto · 05/11/2013 17:20

Dog training would be a step up from what the LA offered ds. I reckon he would have learnt more at dog training than from the autism outreach teacher or SLT!

moondog · 05/11/2013 17:37

Julie Vargas (Skinner's daughter, Skinner being thr godfather of ABA) is a lovely woman, and has written one of the best books on behaviour analysis I have ever met (she was a teacher and is now an academic)
Behaviour Analysis for Effective Teaching

I was honoured by her presence at a presentation I once gave and afterwards I talked with her. She made the point that no one associates or disparages important genetic discoveries because huge breakthroughs were made with fruit flies.

She also told me that whenever people express concern about 'animal training' methods being used on their kids, she replies with a 'Yes and isn't it wonderful that we have ensured that this approach is safe and humane by testing it on animals before we do so on our children?'

No answer to that one!

Read her book. It is wonderful.

sickofsocalledexperts · 05/11/2013 17:42

Very good points, like them!

Looking forward to BBC Four at 9pm tonight, really hope other LAs see how an ABA state school can work

On Matthew Wright they gave a stat (not sure where from) which said that, amongst autism parents using ABA, 85% reported big improvements

moondog · 05/11/2013 18:36

I can see you popping up on that other FB chat Sickof. Grin

frizzcat · 05/11/2013 18:58

Ah Skinner my A'level psychology is all coming back to me. Maybe I had some psychic foresight because behaviourism was the section I really enjoyed and listened to.

sickofsocalledexperts · 05/11/2013 18:58

Yes, you too!

Quite exciting media day for ABA!

StarlightMcKenzie · 05/11/2013 19:34

I'd love to see someone train a goldfish using dance!!

StarlightMcKenzie · 05/11/2013 19:37

Sorry. Random statement of the evening. Mumsnet barely accessible to me now as my computer old and MN cba to support it no more!

StarlightMcKenzie · 05/11/2013 19:37

Can someone put tonight's programme 'out there' on the main board. I'd love to see dem teachers discuss it!

StarlightMcKenzie · 05/11/2013 20:23

Just watched MW now. My word, Virginia made me cry!

salondon · 06/11/2013 09:13

My LA EP and portage worker agree that ABA works because of the intensity of the program. But won't support it!

New posts on this thread. Refresh page