rather dim question about signing

[2shoes]

just a bit confused about this.
if you have a child who is able to talk. why do they need to learn to sign.
now I think I understand the reasons. but could someone explain just so I am sure.

It's not a dim question at all.
The most important issue is whether the baby has some sort of developmental difficulties or not,then exactly how much language they have.Only a salt can really ascertain this,and then not always terribly accurately.(I am a salt btw)

Language can be roughly divided into comprehension (understanding) and expression (which is usually mainly speech but not always.Noises and facial expressions also count amongst other stuff.)

Generally,babies understand first then start to speak so logically,by helping them to understand better you will be helping booost overall language development.

Signing helps as it provides extra visual clues as to the meaning of words (especially as the signing takes place with normal speech).
This can be helpful as a lot of children salts see have poor auditory processing. (Ie They can hear,but can't make sense of what they hear.Rather like you or I listening to a badly tuned radio)

Now,if the child sees lots of signs being used,we hope that she susses out that this is a pretty effective and easy (less neurologically demanding than speech)way to communicate and tries out signs herself.

A lot of parents worry that signing will hinder their child form speaking but research disproves this.It acts rather like scaffold...an extra support.It's a win win situation. If the child will never speak then they do at least have an effective structured method of communication.
If they do learn to speak,the signs will give them a 'leg up' and will be discarded when no longer needed.

Hmmm,this probably wasn't exactly what you wanted to know...

Hi 2shoes!!!!! {{{{{{{{big thanks BTW!!}}}}}}}}

Amelia I suppose is a prime example, her speech is delayed and although emerging, is still unclear. She is a very visual learner, so backing up communication with sign just increases and encourages her vocalisations.

Even now Amelia is attempting words which remain unclear, I can sigh alongside her to encourage stringing words together and eventually teach grammar...hopefully!!

i am more curious along the sn line.
dd lears signs but she is non verbal(oh yeah!)
but just curious about an sn child who is verbal and signs

Big queston is how verbal exactly??

Signing considered very good especially for children with DS as they generally have pretty good visual processing skills,but more difficulties with auditory processing.

dingle it was Amelia that got me thinking about it.(boy she is so cute)
was the seat ok?

LOL!!! I did wonder 2shoes!! Yes the seat was great, just replied on your email. She sat in it like a little princess in her new huge thrown. So great that I didn't have to pull the straps so tight in fear of her getting out, and cutting off her blodd supply!!! Just great!!

Amelia has only fairly recently become so vocal, but her words are still unclear. She has signed however from a very early age, I learnt when she was about 6 months old so she has a sign vocab of about 300 words now.

Sign just aids the communications and reduces some of the frustration. We were walking home from nursery the other day, me clinging onto her little hand, and she was so deternimed in what she was trying to say. I kept on repeating back what I thought she was saying "bear!" Did you play with the teddy bear"
"NO 'ere!!! 'ere!!!" She was saying.
We had to stop,I squatted down & made her to sit on my knee (she is a runner otherwise!!)and I asked her to sign. She then signed beautifully that she had eaten a pear!!!"

Sorry I am rambling!!!LOl!!!!

my ds is verbal and signs.
My aunt is deaf so we have always used Makaton with her anyway (she has many other problms as well)

My ds has a SAL delay so we were advised to sign to him as well. he now signs and speaks.

it helped him understand what we were on about. he has a word finding issure which means that it takes him a few moments to register what has been said t him and then think of the correct reponse.
with teh signing the visual sign gives him a bit of a clue as to what it is he is being asked ( makaton is very simple...almost like gestures ) and so its a clue as to what it is that we have said to him.

My dd is 21 months and her speech is a little slower than i would expect at her age but she will sign for things like drink/food/toilet (we say toilet insteatd of nappy so as notto confuse her and hopefully it will help with the potty training)

i have had a discussion with my ds's SALT about whether the signing is making her lazy speechwise but at this stage we dont think its a cause for concern. i just make sure that if she signs for something i repeat the word back to her.

its a very usefull tool in helping their language skills and it wont hurt them in the future either...its almost a second language isnt it.

makaton essentially works on the premise of assisting with comprehension. My dd1 ( almost 4 with ds) started learning signs ( always use speech when I sign with her unless she is on the other side of a room - then may just sign).

Her progession is thus

see sign, recognise sign, attempt an approximation of sign, refines sign and starts to say the word ( not necessarily clearly - signing helps), signs and says the word, finally will just use the word and drops the sign.

Sometimes with dd1 - using the sign and the word helps also with her auditory processing - affected by intellectual impairment that comes with down syndrome. She generally also knows I really meant it when I sign SIT, or STOP or WAIT iyswim.

It is suppossed to 'encourage' speech.....

dd makes up her own signs which can be immensley irritating for her and us

Fattie,signing emphatically will NOT hinder speech and any salt who even considers this to be the case,needs to do a lot of reading.

Alan althoguh making up signs is annoying in your case it is a fantastically encouraging sign of your dd's communication development. I would be thrilled to bits if one of 'my' children did this.
Children make up words of course as well!!

Remember that for SN we are using signs in conjunction with speech to aid comprehension (Eidsvold's description is lovely and very accurate).If people are deaf,they use a much more complex signing system instead of speech'
However,if they are deaf and have SN then they may use Makaton as appears to be the case with fattie's aunt.

Going back to that old myth that signing will hinder speech!! I can only use a personal comparison with Amelia and another little boy with DS.Their birthdays are only days apart but I appreciate you have to take the individual children into the equation too. I chose tolearn signalong when Amelia was 6 months old and have used and encouraged it ever since, his parents were against signing.
We met last in January last year on a group SALT session and the difference between their communication was amazing.
Amelia is not great at talking but is continaully improving and I couldn't possibly imagine having coped with the last 4.5 years with using any sign!!!

My MIL is concerned that Makaton will slow ds3 up,but (and we've only been doing it a month or so) that is emphatically not the case.
He is definately picking up words faster but his overall communication is rocketing.
Yesterday he emptied the new dishwasher tablets into the tin for me,then stood signing 'green' 'green' with the empty cardboard box in his hand,I said/signed "but it's blue".
More "GREEN" "GREEN",getting crosser and crosser at me,eventually he sined and pointed 'door'.It turns out he wanted to put the cardboard in the green recycling box outside..
The whole interaction would have been impossible a week ago,he would have had a tantrum at the front door and I would never have known that he knows about cardboard and recycling.
Keep signing!

LOL sugar free!!! You have made me think of an incident with Amelia. For ages we have been using a yellow banded electric toothbrush for her. Everytime we do her teeth or her sensory program I ask "What colour is your toothbrush?" She will reply "lellow." One morning she instisited it was blue, I replied, "No daddy's is blue!" She grabbed the toothbrush from my hand and pointed to the central blue bristles on hers!! Well that told me, now we say it's yellow and blue!!! Have to be very precise with Amelia!

My dd1 knew one sign when we left England 2 years ago ( and it was the wrong sign for aussie makaton [some subtle differences]) BUT once she realised that enabled her to communicate - she jsut exploded in her signing. We still get signs she may have learnt at sn kindy and we have to work them out. Dd2 has just picked up signing by osmosis and her speech is very good for a toddler - along with her signing.

I agree any salt that thinks signing hinders speech is not on the right track. Ime it facilitated a lot more communication and the other children at dd1's kindy are now signing as well.

Wanted to add that ds makes up his own signs too,that's what got me to finding out more about Makaton for him.(and Justin Fletcher of course)

Just remembered something someone at work said to me the other day.She asked me how ds was getting on,so I said about the signing and explained how well he was doing,she said,"Oh well,if he can do that he's obviously choosing not to talk because he is lazy.You're spoiling him you soft touch.He's having you on."

So maybe I ought to wallop some speech out of him then?

Digle,don't you just love it when they're right!!
(and you are shown to be a proper numpty!)

nah sugarfree I would have just given her a sign and when she comments say you were too lazy to say it Am sure you could think of appropriate inappropriate gestures to aim at said work colleague.

Lovely examples here.
Sugarfee,I could think of an appropriate sign or two as well.
Great thing is though,that signing is becoming big news for all babies!
I run baby sign classes (amongst other things) and they are oversubscribed.

I rate Sasha Felix,who has released two 'Sing &Sign' dvds very highly indeed,although it is not aimed specifically at children with special needs.
She is a great signer,and really knows what she is on about.
Her little booklet that comes with the first dvd is simple and accurate.

She has a website www.singandsign.com

thanks for all your answers. glad to say I had got it right in my head.
as for making up signs ds(nt) that then teaches them to dd. the sign a long teacher said it was fine.
i find this such a interesting subject.

dingle
so glad she liked the seat. couldn't believe how dinky she looked in it. did you have a nice day at the seaside