Looking for feedback as a SENCO...

[UpsideAndAround]

Hi, I 've changed my posting name as I have posted with details of my childrens' needs before that could make me identifiable professionally. My apologies.

I am a SENCO, as well as a parent, and I'm looking for a little feedback. I have changed areas and am in a different world, it would be great to hear experiences to feed into my practise.

Previously I have only worked in highly deprived areas with low parental involvement, my job was quite a softly softly role with a lot of building relationships with families, gaining trust and generally initiating most contact as well as raising initial concerns. I prided myself on approachability, standing up for children and my communication. I still sit on the borough SEN panel and love my job, volunteering this time termly, sometimes completely unpaid for a morning. My passion is from my own sister and her experiences as well as being a mother to a child who will likely require support educationally.

My new school, although in the same authority, is a very affluent school with largely professional parents representing the majority. There is minimal social mix, although a few children have very different home environments. I taken the same approach in this school (my 4th as SENCO) and I've been reflecting on my practice today. I'm becoming concerned I'm in the 'whoever shouts the loudest' trap. I'm devoting time to particular parents, whose children do not have the highest needs, disproportionately because of responding promptly to every communication. To really blunt I'm on the edge of 'caring carrot' club membership with platitudes and little time for impact if I don't get on top of low-level communication.

Two parents in particular are increasingly using time, from 4 page letters, emails to phone calls, which are creeping more and more into the (sadly limited) time I have for ALL children. Not only is it to the detriment of others, with up to 3/4 page regular letters and pushing for time at the gate but I'm stating to see it's not good either in one case for their own child's self-image as a learner to have such a focus on 'needs'.

As a parent and because of my beliefs I feel in a bit of a quandry. I've always strived to listen, to be that advocate but now I've hit a bit of wall on fairness. Realistically I need to somehow begin to limit contact, and also ensure the fair distribution of resources including very limited access to outreach. It may sound a tad unbelievable but we actually get for some services x number of hours regardless of need, so referring a child with a vocal parent may be at the real disadvantage of another.

I feel confident with the resources side, I've drawn up very clear entry and exit criteria for every intervention and service to ensure fairness. However I'm struggling with how to manage contact. May I ask if any of you have found a school that has a balance between the positives of an open door and free access to a SENCOs email and time management of a squeezed role? If I offer parent x unlimited feedback and support parent y who had their own poor experience of school and rarely speaks up is the one who many be ultimately impacted on. I just have so few hours in which to do anything, and believe me I don't even have breaks but eat at my desk or with children. So I'd like to ask:

Do schools have certain channels of communication to be used?
Do any have a sort of triage set up?
Do you get allocated dates for review, with limited contact outside?
Are there rules of a heirachy such as a SENCO can only be contacted AFTER an initial concern to a class teacher has been dealt with?
Are there mornings for parents to meet as a group, eg a regular coffee morning drop in?

How do you feel about contact with school, what could be better? What's 'reasonable'?

I'm well aware I'm laying myself open here for criticism and how easily it could be given, but this isn't a moan. I am really looking for a idea for a way froward that works. I could do as I see fit and do have ideas, but some quality input or feedback on feelings could cut back on time wasted for inclusion. I'm also well aware being more vocal does not always equal 'pushy', but often seems from genuine anxiety (particularly I find for very high-achieving families) so I'm not simply looking for a pleasant way to ignore! I know I could deal with the individuals in each case, but the problem will occur and some long-term management would go some way.

Thank you in advance.

Hi,

I was given twice termly appointments with the SENCO to do the IEP and other stuff, and fortnightly 10min appointments with the Class Teacher and TA to review progress against IEP and general feedback.

Can I just ask you to consider something for a second.

The loudest parent. Are they being perfectly reasonable in the context of their child (rather than the context of your time available), or are they requesting provision that will gain entry to eton?

Do you think you should share out fairly provision that you already have amongst those that need it, or do you think you should consider each child's need and then provide according to that?

BTW, I don't think you need an open door, but you do need to ensure that there are regular opportunities to address the concerns of the parents. One way is to establish and train staff in effective communication books and processes.

Well, it is good that you care so much to want to be fair.

However, it is the system that makes you feel you have to 'choose' between children and the 'worthiness' of their problems so please don't turn that into a criticism of parents.

Many of us are very used to LAs comforting themselves in their neglect with the thought that 'those who shout loudest don't get' when actually very few get anything if they don't shout. And what you do get, is actually just the basic of what your child is entitled to and even that is probably not objectively measured in terms of outcomes and might not be of any particular worth.

So back to your question.

No. I don't believe you should restrict communication but you should seek to make communication and interventions effective.

If parents are coming back to you time and time again, ask yourself honestly - are you really sorting out their problems? Are you really managing the communication effectively? Are the staff in the child's class managing their needs and communicating effectively?

And how do you measure who has 'the highest need'? Is that from a teacher's perspective? Is it the child whose behaviour has the greatest impact on the class? Is it the child whose scores drag down the cohort? I have a son with AS and the LA and my son's first school spoke in similarly dismissive terms about me. He is clever, didn't disrupt the class, just stressed himself but no one else. However, three years later, my son can't even be in a school and I have a list of indy special schools that won't even taken him. So who measures 'neediness' objectively?

I am sorry if any of this seems harsh but I don't think you are helping the situation by framing the question through the prism of 'middle class pushiness'. Speak to the parents, try to get to the heart of their problems and make sure the staff dealing with them do a proper job.

Watching with interest. I am also a SENCO of a child with SEN. I work in a school similar to your previous school.

I have been very very carefully considering that starlight, plus asked another professional whom I trust to look through the child's file for a more dispassionate take. She works in a neighbouring borough and we, although have respect for each other, healthily disagree on many a point (hence asking her!)

I genuinely have explored avenues, made referrals and supported ALL recommendations, tracking them throughly until discharge. Hand on heart on I believe in good faith his needs are both met and I've sought numerous second opinions. I don't wish to go into identifiable detail but the child is achieving in a range of areas significantly ahead of national averages and reports to all staff a positive self-image as a learner. There is a genuine concern as to unnecessary high-level support and affecting their perception of themselves as a learner.

I also agree about considering each need, but the big BUT is reality.I can offer (comfortably) at least, if not more, contact to ALL parents that you state you receive. However, to provide according to need I must meet ALL needs of ALL children and manage my time effectively to do so. I work until late at night every night, I could not offer more time yet have no more time or resources to extend.

To me highest need is the child furthest from achieving their potential without support, quite an easy benchmark if you know the children eg

Very high need:
A quiet child not accessing the curriculum or progressing
A child with a widening gap from peers
A dyslexic child with great potential and average attainment

Lower need:
That bloody annoying challenging child who still manages to progress academically and is quite self-confident. Can be managed with behaviour strategies and systems alone
A child with needs that are not currently impacting on access or progress but that requires careful tracking and monitoring to ensure this continues.

I've tried not to phrase it through that prism of middle class pushiness, yet I'm trying to communicate the reality.

I have the option of passing on the role of SENCO to a non-SMT staff member and I get so worn out at times that although I know it's not the way forward a selfish bit of be can't see much of a way forward. As a parent I know what a battle it is to be heard, yet as a professional I see the resources out their and how little there is. I love the role but... well I'm self moaning.

Genuinely, whether I'm wrong and you disagree with me or see my practice as poor, I really would love to hear what does work. I'm genuinely looking for some ways to improve practice.

As a parent who has been in the 'system' for ~2.5 years, my experience so far has been that you have to shout out loud, throw your weight around and only then the very basic is made available.

So if you believe you are meeting these two pupils' statements accurately, ask the parents for a meeting at x frequency and explain why it can't be any more frequent.

Hi UpsideAndAround, I can tell from your posts that you want this to work for the good of your pupils and that you're not a caring carrot. I have a few thoughts, based on my own experiences.

Firstly, how it works at DD2's school is this:

-SENCO referrals can be made by any parent with concern. They can phone the office and ask to speak to the SENCO, etc.
-The SENCO mans the main gates each day. I presume it's because she doesn't have a class to welcome in and settle, but it seems to work quite well because I see parents talking to her as they enter or leave, about their children - this will prevent issues building.
-Each time Parent's Evening approaches, the form comes around for parents to book a slot. There is a tick box at the bottom saying 'I'd like an appointment with the SENCO'. If a parent ticks it, a time slot is arranged in conjunction with the teacher slot.

My feedback:

-Parents generally write long letters when they feel they have to explain everything to get their point understood. I wrote the SENCO a very long letter (just one) to explain our concerns about DD2. This was because despite raising concern with teachers, they didn't see beyond the 'pretty blonde 6 year old'.
-You don't need more time, you need systems that reassure parents and meet the needs of the children.

One suggestion - could you arrange that once a fortnight you'll liaise with the teacher (note, liaise could be as simple as putting your head around the door) and check that progress hasn't deviated from the plan for the child with demanding parents. Then, you could send home a note that says 'Just writing to let you know that I've talked with x teacher and your child is making good progress. We will review fortnightly.'

Thanks lougle, good food for thought.

-I man the gates (I have another role where I have to)
-The tick box idea is good, I haven't thought of that being on all slips but might be good for early contact before things fester
-I'm wary that saying we had a chat would result in more phonecalls asking about what exactly was said, BUT it's a good line of thought. Maybe for SA+ and statemented children I may start something like a weekly review sheet to pop home on fridays. It would be no more work but is more overt than the dribs and drabs of homework and notes. We could use such a sheet to summarise on. Thanks

The children I am spending time on though are not at SA+ or holding statements, they are on the border of SA and no concerns. No teacher has come to me and they perform well in my assessments and progress well. In that school have none, but we are respecting and acting on parental concern. They have far less contact planned for this reason. I can't say the exact concerns, but they are around soft skills so harder to measure.

It's difficult. I could well be that sort of parent. Except that I'm not because I've written one letter, cc'd our SENCO on one email and had one scheduled face to face since she started a year ago.

The trouble is that our history is this:

School A: Yr R ok. No real friends, but happy. Y1 disaster, leading to school refusal and (very real -doctor confirmed) physical symptoms of illness. School A wouldn't deal with it so moved her.

School B: Moved in January of Y1. Very good, wonderful teacher. However, concerns we have were not shared. Spoke to SENCO incidentally, was asked to send in a letter with concerns.

SENCO could see our thoughts and suggested possible interventions - nothing yet done. Teacher didn't share concerns.

SALT assessment - SALT could see evidence of our concerns, but dismissed them because school do not have concerns.

Now, Y2: Class teacher has said she's not listening. Sleep walking is returning. Anxiety is ramping up at home. Unfortunately, DD2 reacts to stress by laughing, so at school she seems ditzy and daft. She's not performing at the level the Y1 teacher assessed her to be.

I know that the only way I can get things sorted for DD2 is to be a nuisance to the teacher and the SENCO

You see that's not a nuisance at all.
Step 1: meet, discuss strategies, likes interests etc. Social group, (circle of friends?) visual prompts and reminders for concentration, clear roles in playground games at lunch requiring interaction, rewards and praise maybe a mentor time each day to discuss worries...no rocket science stuff, if I met her I'm such it would flow
Step 2: Monitor and track targets. If progressing continue and raise expectations, if not review and consider referral to outreach if anxiety is either significantly impacting academic progress or emotional wellbeing.
Step 3: Review again, CAMHS maybe if concerns have heightended

Side note: inform parent of GP route and discuss pros and cons, remind GP can refer to SALT/ CDC/ CAHMS if concerns are largely home based.

I'm really not talking in that field at all.

Oh, and a termly meet is the least that is reasonable.

If the school have no concerns socially, academically, etc., and the child is performing above normal levels, why are the parents concerned?

I'm not asking for specifics (Please don't give any), but I'm trying to highlight the point that they must be worried about something - something that is causing them to want your reassurance and intervention on a regular basis.

What are they getting from you that could be given to them without using the time of a SENCO?

Is it a symptom of a lack of feedback from the teacher? Is this an ongoing situation, or just since September?

Something is unsettling them - that's what I'd be focusing on if their concerns seem 'pathological'.

Then why are they on the SEN register if they are doing so well and no concerns? Sorry I don't understand, this would just be considered normal differentiated teaching in our school with no SENCO input.

It sounds to me like you are doing the class teachers job

yes to the hierarchy my first port of call is the class teacher (my child has a statement)

I have probably been classed as one of those parents Upside reason being I was so concerned about my sons change outside of school along side constantly being collared by the CT's because my Ds wasn't and still isn't performing as he should be (according to his cognitive profile).

I have tried to support the CT's as much as possible by giving advice and suggestions as to what is/could be affecting him which then falls on deaf ears because they will not treat my Ds any different from any other child and the HT backs them up . Who else could I talk to? other than the SENCO...the person responsible for the SEN within the school.

My Ds's past CT's have been very good at making it 'look' as though all was well when in reality they were not following his IEP. If I was you I would take a little time to observe the Dc, LOOK through the child's books...don't rely on verbal info from the CT. Twas quite an eye opener when we received Ds's work books at the end of each year (and I don't mean the work produced I refer to the attitude of the staff who were 'supporting' my Ds)..any time we had a meeting we were always shown a photocopy of a piece of work, during parents evenings we never got to see the books, the CT read from notes. All became clear when we opened those books!

BTW my Ds's SENCO only has a small amount of time too, she is also a class teacher. I don't know about anyone else with Sn Dc but for me if all was well....there would be no letters/emails/calls. I would be happy with a review/IEP meeting.

Am seen as 'one of those' parents too, at school, though I never, ever bug anyone who is actually doing their job, even if they're doing it badly or reluctantly. Sugaplumferry's sleuthing suggestion sounds good.

One tip: ask yourself, if the dc in question didn't have SEN, would the parent still be constantly finding reasons to be up at the school, seeing the head, wanting extension g&t mandolin lessons, etc. If so, it's fine to be more inaccessible to them, than you would a once-a-term parents.

It's an unusual one, which children often move forward from with lots of good quality support earlier on. Which the child had and made fantastic progress.

Maria, the answer is probably yes.

I think lugal the feedback is great, but not what is expected. Ie the teacher expresses, with books and evidence, fantastic achievement yet the parents feel she must be trying to lie. I have a lot of parents in this boat, non Sen. Some have a bit of a point but that's a matter thAt is followed up. In my role I am responsible for all observations of staff and performance management so I'm well in the picture. At all parents evenings our parents can look at books will they waif

I was definitely one of those parents as the school and I disagreed MASSIVELY about the ability of ds and the method of ensuring his engagement to allow him to demonstrate that.

The school were constantly telling me that he was making fantastic progress but I always felt they had an unsaid caveat which stated 'for someone with ASD'.

Though I can't say I bothered the SENCO much. I wanted the action to happen where ds was, so it was the CT, the TA and the HT that I mainly dealt with.

I actually felt the SENCO didn't have all that much power improve the working practices of the CT or the TA.

LOL, and what Polter said

I think you will need to limit the time you spend by being straight with the parents. If you do not believe their child to need further interventions then you need to say so. They will be unhappy perhaps but they then know that they will need to raise their concerns with the head or ask for statutory assessment without the school's support. If you think the class teacher should be able to manage their child's needs without your input on a regular basis then you need to discuss this with the class teacher and ensure that it is done. Perhaps a first step would be to discuss with class teacher what is appropriate for this child, then invite parents in to share plans with them and also suggest a regular fortnighly meeting or whatever when they can discuss issues with CT. It would be a shame if you gave up this role when you are clearly very passionate about it and are trying your best.

This is a very interesting discussion.

I was completely unpushy in primary. I confined my interactions with SEN to the termly review. Ds2 was relatively happy,but academically not performing that well. I liked the SEN but for some reason didn't want to get into any big fights with her or rock the boat, because they seemed to have ds2's happiness at the forefront of their interventions and that was certainly working. He enjoyed school, he got praised and encouraged. He just didn't reach what I would consider to be an appropriate academic level for his intelligence (ie: 5 s in SATS not 4's and 3's) I suspect like Starlight they thought he was doing well for someone with ASD.

Fast forward to Secondary. Ds2 academic issues are more grating. He cannot do the homework. I still feel I am pestering to contact the SEN. However I do, SEN very helpful. We set up a package, and it is clear that I am now working within the framework that SEN has discussed, rather than ring up for random discussions or send long emails. As long as they keep to their package of interventions and they work, our relationship is quite low key and sensible. I think the SEN is very approachable man, who calms people down by appearing not to put them down or in anyway belittle their fears and hopes. He then gives confidence to the parent who then is able to negotiate the problems of parenting ASD child/schoolwork a bit better.
Thinking through the way he has responded, he has set boundaries, but been very responsive too, and that is key. He knows he is going to have to work with us for the next six years and it is worth getting it right NOW.

Whereas in primary it felt like there was no point being pushy...just a vacuum. Especially in year 6 when they know your child is moving on.

I also found that meetings face to face to discuss problems worked wonders with parents v SEN. It seemed amazing to spend all that time setting up a meeting and talking to a parent who invariably overran, but it paid for itself in gold in the sense that having offloaded a lot of stuff, exchanged thoughts the parents then tended to have much more faith in the idea that the SEN understood the problem and might be dealing with it. Could that be an issue for your pushy parents? They need a physical meeting rather than the rather inflammatory world of emails and phonecalls. Body language etc?

I have a child who does not behave badly in class, who reads quite well, comes from a privileged bookish background, who has lots of ideas which he can communicate quite effectively. Okay his writing is rubbish. But from a SEN point of view he is not doing too badly. Yet he needs support and time from the SEN department because he is not going to achieve what he is capable of unless they put as much effort into him as into a child who did not get a level 4 in SATs. I'm not sure that makes me a pushy parent, just one who is helping the school by flagging up long term issues NOW, before it impacts on the school further, when they struggle to sort out his performance at the end of KS3, and need to help him get a C in English GSCE. It is an investment for the school. Does that sound like pushiness? I still feel guilty though at "pestering" - it seems to be a default setting engrained in me.