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Child's levels dropped from NC level 2 to P scales in the last 2 years?

9 replies

bjkmummy · 18/10/2013 17:42

Sin in year 6 annual review was stated his levels were around NC levels 2. LA and primary school were trying to argue he went to mainstream secondary for year 7. I dug my heels in and said no, I want special school. LA agreed to special school on basis that I transport him as school further away. In part 4 of his statement in name said special school but then states'that as parents we expressed a preference for him to attend special school. It's not nearest school and la consider it an incompatible use of resources if it had to provide transport to the special school. They have named it due to parental choice. If for any reason they are no longer willing or able to do so then Ben would be expected to transfer to the nearest suitable school namely x secondary mainstream school in the dsp unit

Just got his year 8 annual review paperwork and from being NC level 2 he is now only on P scales? I just don't understand it - the mainstream school must have severely over estimated his levels but why? The mainstream secondary agreed they would take him given his levels they were then told at the time but if the levels they were given were wrong? Where does that leave us. I am happy to transport him and will be asking for the statement to be amended as it details his NC levels in 2011 which are now grossly wrong and he is under achieving so much more. What I cannot get my head around is why? Why would a primary school do this?

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inappropriatelyemployed · 18/10/2013 18:27

What happened to his Y7 review? Why was the difference not picked up then?

bjkmummy · 18/10/2013 18:51

year 7 review happened in October so he had only been in school for a matter of weeks then parents evening was 2 days later so I guess I have been left in the dark slightly. got the paperwork tonight - half term now and annual review at 10am on Monday they go back to school

definitely not had any thing else with his levels on ie school report as I would have certainly remembered it so I guess special school is partly to blame but then they probably thought I knew

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AgnesDiPesto · 18/10/2013 19:03

My friend works at secondary school and says this happens all the time and primaries pass on children without any hint that something's amiss and day 1 of secondary its apparent the child has blatant undiagnosed autism etc. she says its like they try and sneak them in. Perhaps primary doesn't want go against LA mainstream line. Or just want to know child has a school place and off their hands. NC levels and P scales are quite unreliable especially where a child has splintered skills eg asd. 3 out of 3 primary teachers have so far got ds p scales and NC levels vastly wrong due to sheer ignorance of autism and having barely bothered with him (left him to ABA staff to teach). So they think he can write read and write age appropriately despite his writing being from memorising sentences from books and repeating them not being his own creations and his comprehension being 4 years behind his reading age. To them he reads and writes well because they don't bother to talk to him and don't know its mostly just an amazing memory and little understanding.

AgnesDiPesto · 18/10/2013 19:08

Oh and primaries get scored on % children making 2 levels progress between ks1 and ks2
But yes ask for transport as could not go to mainstream on p scales. I'm sure I have read that to be secondary ready have to be min NC3.

homework · 18/10/2013 19:11

What about his report at end of year seven , should have levels on that for each subject.
Levels also a bit different from what's expected between each level from high school and primary , but this is a major difference . P scales when my son was on them where basic things , which if he's managed main stream primary should have moved beyond , unless , he can't read, write , or add at all. I would be query why you had no information from them in whole of year seven .
Also have they changed the way there assessing him , as different tools , can have vastly different results . ( reading assessments)
Look though all his reports from when he started school and , what his statement says in way of support and what his targets are , take his iep and query why he's not made targets . Why you not been informed of these misses in targets and what have they done in ways of interventions to improve these results.

bjkmummy · 18/10/2013 19:46

the primary school he was in the blooming unit for asd!!! hes been dx since the age of 5 and it was always apparent he had learning difficulties - you are right I need to track his levels from primary and beyond - for a while he left the primary as we moved areas and he went into a specialist asd school. dh lost his job so we returned back to this are and returned to the primary school so hopefully that year out of the primary school should show something - I have an awful feeling that when he went to the special primary his levels dipped and then when he returned back to the area they levels shot up again so I need to do some tracking I think. im drained - having two with asd and one with possible dyslexia - im just tired of the constant battling over everything.

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uggerthebugger · 18/10/2013 20:32

Flowers Sad Tbh bjk, there's not much point going back and tracking his levels over time using data collected by a mainstream primary school. The only consistent thing about this data is that it will be bollocks. The only worthwhile data on levels and progress I have ever seen for my kids has come from independent sources, repeated over time.

Why does it happen? It's basically like Agnes said, but here's the longer version....

To save themselves the hard work of finding out how a school and its pupils tick, Ofsted - and therefore, senior school management - rely on NC level data tracked over time to work out how well the kids (and by extension, the teachers) are doing. Otherwise, they'd have to spend ages in classrooms properly investigating, and we can't have that, can we?

Ofsted want to see evidence of progress. Relentless, metronomic progress, every lesson, every week, every month, every term. There is no space in their approach for the individual child, especially not one with SN. Ofsted deals in dessicated learning units - not human beings, and the levels data means (almost) everything. This is why so many 'outstanding' schools are hostile to kids with SN - their spikiness fucks up the progress tracking spreadsheet, and makes Ofsted unhappy - and we can't have that, can we?

The main problem with this approach is that it places massive pressure on primary schools to show evidence of progress. Unfortunately, small human beings get in the way of this, as they don't always progress in the same way at the same time. If needs aren't being met - as is all too often the case for kids with SN - their progress will look bad. Which will make the data look bad. Which will make Ofsted unhappy. And we can't have that, can we?

So mainstream primaries make a choice. They can choose to measure and record evidence of progress accurately and objectively - and get their arses kicked when the data doesn't please Ofsted. Or they can take a more creative approach to measuring progress - cherry-picking assessments, inflating test scores, or simply making them up.

Very, very many primaries choose the latter - because the chances of getting caught are slim, and much slimmer than the chances of getting a bad Ofsted report if you're honest about the data. Because everyone's doing it, you're a mug if you take the honest approach - and every head knows this. And the schools start doing this pretty much from early years, all the way through to Year 6.

Essentially, it's the same dynamic that saw the Soviet Union report new heights of tractor production each year whilst their factories rusted away - and the same dynamic that sees people die in hospitals so that specific A&E metrics line up. Demented, slavish worship of targets that aren't tethered to reality.

My DS1 left Year 6 with a Level 4 in literacy - age-appropriate. Four independent professionals separately assessed him at the age of 11 as having a reading age of 6.5 and the grammatical ability of a pre-schooler. The levels system is corrupt to the core. Utterly, utterly corrupt.

This corruption affects NT kids too - just ask any Year 7 secondary school teacher about the value of primary school assessment. But the impact of this corruption on kids with SN is far worse. The inflated levels and rates of progress give LAs powerful evidence that mainstream placements are appropriate when they are not. The smoothed-out progress profiles prevent professionals from working out whether specific outcomes are effective. And parents end up being deceived right up until secondary, when the truth tends to emerge.

Sorry, this was far too long, but it's something I feel really strongly about...

bishyboshy · 18/10/2013 20:49

Yes, I have a friend who is a secondary school teacher and she is in charge of tracking data at her school and she says primary grades are crap.

bjkmummy · 18/10/2013 21:14

I think I need to let it go - just came as a shock. I know he is behind academically but just didn't realise how far behind he is. What concerns me as well is that my daughters primary says she's 4 years behind - am I in for an even bigger shock in 2 weeks time when she gets assessed privately? I had fallen into believing that he was behind but would be okay , know that's now not the truth and if I'm honest I feel sad about that. I think it has highlighted also that the special school haven't been particularly good of keeping parents in the loop

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