ASD DS to be permanently excluded or sent to a CSS.

[Sahkoora]

Don't know if you have read my other threads this week about DS being pressured when he gets to school.

I had the meeting with the HT today and basically, they have said that DS is a danger to himself and others and that they are going to do a positive referral to a CSS or they are going to permanently exclude him.

I have heard several times that the CSS is not a suitable place for a 5 year old, and the LA are standing with the school.

Both LA and school think it unlikely DS would get another place at a mainstream school, but are also won't say that a special school is the answer, as he doesn't yet have a statement.

In shock, don't know what to do. REALLY don't want to send DS to the CSS, but there doesn't seem as though we have any other options now. Should I pull DS out and homeschool him until we can get an ss place?

Sorry if this is a bit spacy, I feel weird right now.

Sit tight, keep very careful records, visit the PRU so you can truthfully say you considered the offer carefully. Look at the special schools and the other local mainstreams: take notes, ask if they have similar dc. Most importantly, mark statutory assessment key dates on your calendar.

Then let the HT and governors get on and exclude him. You can buy enough time for statement completion by appealing the decision: this stops the out-of-sight-out-of-mind problem. The LA should offer home tuition, or 1-1 in a nursery school, or another sensible interim provision: it's not especially hard or expensive for them to do in foundation stage.

<a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130401151715/www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/DfES%200581%20200mig2228.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">SENCOP section 8.23 deals with emergency placements and situations needing speeded-up ststutory assessment.

You are being given so much bullshit by both the school and the LA. The behaviour of both seems to me absolutely disgusting.

The school cannot exclude your child on health and safety grounds. The right to exclude for H & S relates to circumstances such as a child who is very infectious, not an autistic child.

If you wanted your child to go to another mainstream school, that school would have to take him if it had a vacancy. They would not be able to refuse just because this Headteacher phoned up and recommended them not to.

Please phone SOS SEN as soon as you can.

Hi, I just want to add a bit to this, having been in a similar situation when ds was 6. My first piece of advice is that LAs rarely do anything in these situations to help dc get into an appropriate placement until they have been permanently excluded; sometimes they need it to happen in 2 ms schools. If I'd known this at the time I wouldn't have wasted 'turmoil and angst' fighting against it. The LAs and schools want to keep the number of exclusions on record down and will do anything to enable this. Encourage the HT to permanently exclude (I know this sounds wrong and hurtful for your ds but rather to make this difficult time as short as possible for all of you), whatever it takes. Whatever you do do not withdraw ds. As he is 5 the LA may then just go for an appropriate placement, which you must start researching now. Second, some PRUs are ok, my ds went to 2 (different counties) and in the first, which was mainly for teenagers, it was actually really nice and ds got a bit of 1:1 educating in a calm atmosphere. It was a long distance so I drove him and claimed a petrol contribution from the LA. The 2nd one was crap even though it was for primary, but the upshot was, 4 years after the exclusions started and moving 200 miles he's well placed and is doing well in an Indie SS the past 2 years. I'll never forget my final discussion with the LA, relaxing in the bath after the final exclusion, did I want the permanent exclusion removed from the record? Oh no thanks, I'd rather leave it there...Good luck.

Go see the PRU - they might refuse to take him on the grounds that theirs is not a suitable environment for a 5 year old with ASD. My local ESBD school did this when my DS was 6 (so not much older!). At the time he didn't have a diagnosis, merely walked and talked like a duck iykwim. As a specialist facility they have more legal scope to do this than a mainstream school.

Re the TAXI - you'd be expected to go with him in it.

You can then say you have checked out the provision this HT recommends. Talk to IPSEA. In the meantime suggest LA funded home tuition as an option for the LA while they process his statement. Also start researching independent specialist options, and any state facilities outside your own borough. The thought of spending money should focus the LA's mind.

A permanent exclusion for a 5 year old is a clear sign of a school that is failing in the eyes of the general public. As professional adults they should be able to manage a 5 year old's behavior - ask any Daily Fail reader. If your child was 15 I'd say you were right to be concerned about this, but at 5? Laugh in the HT's face, and thank him for giving you such a clear cut disability discrimination claim.

The issue I have with home ed, is that in many areas this effectively excludes you from being able to access valuable NHS therapeutic services your child may need such as SALT, or Occupational Therapy. In my case my son needed SALT services like a fish needs water so I had to stick with the school system, as I was lacking the funds to go private. I have no idea what your financial situation is, but it is something to consider before you opt out.

Don't accept the CSS unless you are absolutely sure it's the best place for ds.
An indi SS may well be the best thing for him, but he hasn't really had the chance to see if mainstream can work for him.

Let the HT exclude him...although he most likely won't. He's an arrogant bully who thinks he can get rid of ds by bullying you into removing him with threats of exclusion.

Get other people involved in this- is ds under a paediatrician? You could call an urgent multi-agency meeting.

I am so angry on your behalf.

I'd be recording all the conversations in writing so you have a record as its amazing how people deny saying things like 'no m/s school will take him' when you ask for a more expensive SS.

So write back 'i just want to confirm our conversation on...' and send it to them. It then stands as a record unless they write back and correct it.

You should look at the PRU so if it does end up in a tribunal situation you can show you have been reasonable and considered all the options

You can ask the PRU what behavioural training for children with autism the staff have and how they intend to work on your child's behaviour and how they intend to generalise that back into mainstream. Ask them what success they have had in the past in similar cases. If the answers are none - and there is no peer group - that strengthens your case for refusing.

I agree a permanent exclusion is useful in terms of getting better provision. You can appeal the exclusion if you want (although you may not want to go back) see info here You can now get an SEN expert involved in an appeal against exclusion and this person has to be independent of the LA.

You sound like you would have a good case for appeal as the School has not made reasonable adjustments or put in SEN strategies. Poss also disability discrimination. But this school sounds awful and I know children who have stayed in schools like this and had a mental breakdown by 9/10 because of how they are treated

You need to find the right solution for your child and put your efforts into getting that on a statement. Which means looking at all the schooling options eg ASD units, indep special schools, ABA etc

My DS is in a mainstream school with ABA support and that works well. But I recognise it would not work without ABA - as school staff don't know enough about behaviour / autism.

The school are supporting another boy who does not yet have a statement with FT untrained TA 1:1 - while they are trying this boy has made no progress in 2 years because the staff still can't get him to sit down and follow a 1 step instruction. The SLT and autism outreach here are useless and know nothing about behavioural approaches. So even in a willing school if the expertise is not there then its not the right solution.

So I would look at SS, units, ABA etc and work hard to get that. It doesn't mean he can't go back into mainstream, just he's not ready yet and the school is not skilled enough.

I wouldn't ''pull him out" as if you home ed you take over financial responsibility and they don't need to do a statement if you are providing an adequate education. You can refuse for him to go to PRU and if HT refuses to have him back then the LA must find another school and provide home tuition in the meantime. There is a legal difference to a child being educated 'otherwise than in school' which is an educational placement itself and a child being home educated. You want 'education otherwise' eg home tutor / home programme funded by LA or school until an appropriate placement is found

I would get IPSEA or NAS etc onboard as you can be allocated a caseworker who can help you.

From my experience PRU staff are not experienced or trained in managing ASD behaviours. School wanted my ds shipped into one 'to help his self-esteem' and I questioned the expertise of the staff. Was advised that they had the same knowledge and experience of mainstream staff
We were also regularly threatened with permanent exclusion (had a sm) and the HT finally did this - he was an arrogant bully too .
At 5 years old this attitude by the school is just disgusting. Does it have a good reputation? Ours did have and because of this the LA did everything to support them - whether it was unethical or illegal or not.

I would be making a lot of noise about this -the LA and schools hate to think of their actions being made public. Speak to your local MP, Ipsea etc. Someone will be able to support you.

Oh,and if they keep spouting on about health and safety ask to see their risk assessments. Also look at the government statutory guidance on exclusions - you can't exclude for health and safety reasons or simply because you can't meet needs. Permanent exclusion is supposed to be a last resort, not the first available option. Ofsted may also be interested in this.

Another thing- PRU's do not have to follow the national curriculum (and rarely do) so your ds won't be getting the same education as his peers.

Both the HT and the LA said that we want to avoid permanent exclusion at all costs. Why is that?
Because they don't want you to bring a disability discrimination legal action against them. Not for one minute is it because they are concerned with your DC.

They can not refuse to let you home educate him. It is a big decision deciding whether or not to home ed a vulnerable child. However, if you do decide to withdrew him from school, you can still continue to actively pursue a correct Statement of Educational needs. If you kick up enough fuss, you will also still have enough access to therapy - such as speech therapy - out of school, even if you don't have a Statement. Having myself been through a year of home ed, I know how tough it is but, I made it very clear to the local authority that my DS was only out of school until they sorted his Statement out. I wrote a home ed philosophy document which showed the age-appropriate curriculum I was doing with him, and stated throughout the document that this was only happening until my son's needs were properly met in a Statement. Because of this document, the home ed department of LA stayed away from me. (BTW you don't have to follow the curriculum if you home ed, but, for various reasons, I choose to). My DS also had (limited) blocks of speech therapy when he was out of school, direct with the NHS, although it didn't have to be provided to him because at that stage he didn't have a Statement. One of those weird quirks of the 'system' - because the LA sent him to be assessed by an NHS SALT in preparation for his Statement, this very act by the LA got him high-up the NHS waiting list for direct therapy.

Tbh in my case, home ed'ing my son removed the entire stress of fighting a school which was never able or willing to help my DS. It also reduced my DS's anxiety levels to something which he (and I!) could handle. Home ed'ing meant that it was a clear fight between me and the LA to get the correct Statement without all the crap from the current school getting in the way. I removed my DC from school after months of agonising and ultimately seeking legal advice.

Whatever you decide, you do need legal advice

Thank you again everyone.

Trying to get some help and advice today through the official channels, and can't get hold of anyone. IPSEA is constantly engaged, though looking at the poor souls in trouble on this board alone, I'm not surprised.

Tried to call everyone involved in DS's case and spoke to precisely no one. All answerphones or messages being passed on. Spoke to the LA again to ask about statementing and home edding and she wouldn't answer my questions, was very vague and said we could explore all options "as we went along".

I just want someone to look at this from DS's perspective. Even professionals I thought we had a good relationship with are just not returning my calls. I've emailed, phoned, texted over the past week, explaining the situation we are in. I really do feel as though I am the only one who cares.

The woman from the LA did say that home ed would remove access to services, but DS doesn't need any SALT and so far all these services have done absolutely nothing to improve life at home or school, so I don't really think we'll miss out on all that much.

Thank you so much TOWIELA for giving me your perspective on home edding and getting a statement. It gives me hope that we can do this.

I am so so so so sick of going up to school every day wondering whether DS has been "good". So sick of checking my phone to make sure I haven't got to get him. I just want to feel proud of my DS again, proud of the things I have done as a mum. I have just felt like a pariah at school for so long, sneaking round the back to drop my DS off where no one will hear him if he melts down.

I need this over and done with. I've barely eaten all weekend and last night I woke up at 2am with all this going over and over in my head. I ended up being sick because I just can't get rid of this knot in my stomach.

Thanks so much for listening and for the honks. If it wasn't for you ladies I think I would feel like I was going mad.

Have you tried the IPSEA e-mail service if you can't get through on the phone?

No, I didn't see that option. Thanks, I'll check it out now :)

Can't find an email option, it says:

Please note that we cannot respond to requests for legally based advice by post, email or via our office. The only way to receive IPSEA advice is to contact one of our helplines.

Thanks anyway.

The woman from the LA did say that home ed would remove access to services

She is lying. This might be true if you had a Statement (I'm not sure). But not if you don't have a Statement. As I said up thread, the LA sent my DS to a SALT ready for his Statement. At the end of the assessment for his Statement, the SALT said that he needed direct therapy, so he'd go on the waiting list - but he must have gone high up because his block of therapy started almost immediately. The only difference was that his therapy was in a medical centre clinic whereas she normally sees children at school.

The same would have applied if the LA sent my DS to an OT - but with their typical incompetence they never got round to having an OT assess him.

I really do feel as though I am the only one who cares.

Good - you have learnt Rule No 1. That's why it's you that needs to battle for what your son needs - no one else cares.

I would forget sll about home education for the time being. He is 5 years old!!!! Far too young to opt out of the state system just because his existing school is useless. You'd just be making it very easy for them to take your DS away and leave them in peace.

Stay put - at the current school. Wait to see if they exclude him.

But meanwhile apply directly to the LA for a statutory assessment that may lead to a Statement. Don't wait for school to do it - they won't. The LA won't do it. So you need to get the ball rollong my making your own application. It's very easy - loads of us here have done it.

That's when you start getting taken seriously by all the 'professionals'

Have you tried SOS SEN?

SOSSEN they even have contact with lawyers who will work pro-bono. Do phone them and keep phoning.

Thanks Wet. I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but DS is already in the statement process - expecting the proposed statement this week. I did have to do it myself, you are right, school would not.

The problem is that it seems as though no one involved will stand up and say this is wrong. I finally got through to the Specialist Autism Teacher in charge of DS's case, and again, she totally backed the head.

She said we have no choice and that DS will end up at the PRU if we say no to the positive referral as that is where the LA will place him when the head permanently excludes him. There are no other options for him.

The only thing open to us if this continues is home ed. The ss doesn't have any places until 2014 ... are they planning to leave him in the PRU until then?

ASD teacher backed the Head - disgusting!

Did you tell the ASD teacher that you consider this to be in breach of the equality act? Please put it in an email to send back to her that she agrees with this so that she can't wriggle out of it in the next multi-agency meeting. I am horrified by how spineless these LA are.
Don't discuss this over the phone - they will collude and lie.
It all needs to be in writing.

Wetaugust is correct - they don't care about your ds. Bring the fight to their door. You might consider bringing this breach of the equality act to the attention of the chief education officer if they seem that they are going to go ahead with this anyway....see what happens then.

She said we have no choice and that DS will end up at the PRU if we say no to the positive referral as that is where the LA will place him when the head permanently excludes him

That is utter bollox!

The LA knows that they should not educate pupils with long term special needs in a PRU. the Dept for Education even helpfully reminds them of this at times. If you tell the LA you know of this guidance I doubt if they will continue to push the PRU - becuase they know they should not be doing this.

If his current mainstream school is not suitable then there are various options before considering home education (ehich should be a last resort):

1. existing mainstream school with a Statement
2. new mainstream school
3. new mainstream school with a Statement
4. special school maintained by the LA within the LA area (you would need a srarement to access this)
5. special school maintained by an LA in a different LA area (you would need Statement to access this)
6. independent special school (funded by LA and you would need a statement)
7. home tuition provided by LA tutors

,probably more options I have left out>

Last option: home education funded by yourself

Also, special schools are not always "full" - even if the LA tell you they are. They don't have the same admission constraints as mainstream schools which means that 'full' can still allow them to take in more pupils.

Also, you see from the options above that the fact that your local special school is full doesn't mean he couldn't find a special school placemnet elsewhere.

My advice reamins: get the exclusion in writing. Send him back to school when the exclusion ends. Let them do the running. Don't make life easy for them - they will abuse it and before you know where you are you'll be running down to school to collect him every time they ring.

Thank you Wet, that's very useful. I don't suppose you could point me in the direction of the legislation or guidelines that say long-term SEN students can't be educated in a PRU? That would probably be a very useful weapon in my arsenal right now.

If the HT genuinely didn't think mainstream was the way to go for DS, surely now would have been the time to say so. In the next couple of weeks we will be naming a school on the statement, so why has he done this so unkindly?

And I really DON'T think they can cope with DS, not with their current inflexible attitudes, so I am really not keen to send him back to this school at all.

It depends where you live. Here there are no alternatives to mainstream for a 5 year old with asd but not sld. there are no units, no Indep Asd primary schools so actually it is quite possible the LA have no provision when mainstream goes wrong. That's how we ended up with ABA. Talk about your ds being out of school not home ed. Otherwise the LA will say parent is making own arrangements and no need to fund any placement or support. Let the school exclude, this school is no use to you. An exclusion will help you win a better placement. You can refuse pru if its unsuitable and the LA cannot name pru as the permanent placement for a 5 year old. A tribunal will not be happy about that. Don't run around chasing them. Spend your time finding a solution eg out of area etc the LA has a duty to meet your child's sen so I would sit tight. If they think you are panicking they will think they can push you into pru and scare you to thinking you have no option. You do have options but you need to take charge and find a better placement. Then when the proposed statement comes you can name your choice and get a right of appeal if they don't agree.