Got confused about how much detail/reports i need to put in with a parental request for statutory assessment - help please

[pannetone]

Sorry for what is a 'beginner's question. I have tried to glean the info from other threads (including the current thread from 2BoysNamedR) and the EsSENtials blog but I've got mighty confused. DD has been seen by the ed psych back in May and I have her ASD diagnostic report from April. Should I definitely include these? What about 'over-optimistic' reports of progress from the School's independent SALT? (DD just about always meets her targets - but that says more about the targets, than any real progress). And if I'm including these reports with my request do I have to 'pull out' all the points suggesting SA is necessary?

If reports are best to support the request, I have nothing in writing from CAMHS ( bar appointment letters) though DD has been under them for nearly 2 years. And the EP report says he noted some gross motor issues that meant DD 'could' be referred to an OT - does it matter this hasn't been done at this stage?

Is it best (polite?!) to tell the School I am requesting SA? In theory they should be supportive because they are always claiming not to have the money to give DD any more (or more appropriate) support. However, the Head does spectacular turn-arounds and I can see him trying to persuade me DD doesn't need/won't get a statement.

Are they telling you she needs support but they don't have the funding for it? Get them to put that in writing if you can.

It's been a couple years and I don't remember the details very well. Does it say anything on the IPSEA website about it specifically? I'm sure there will be more along that are much better informed than me.

I'm putting all my reports in -18 things in total. I tried to highlight some points but ended up highlighting the entire ot report! I am doing covering letter saying he has xyz you see that in these reports also included done examples of his writing, and how he has failed IEP targets etc

Thanks for replies. Struggling this morning. DD (who's 8) won't even get out of bed. She is too anxious about school swimming. At this rate I won't get her to school in time to go swimming anyway....

I drove DD to swimming as she was too late to walk with the class. She still had to be peeled off me as she refused to go and get changed. Then she is adamant she is not getting in the water. I am finding it hard because I know she isn't getting the support she needs. The school don't 'do' strategies for HFA and anxiety. Had to ask they stopped doing the limited support they were giving her for her selective mutism as the TA was putting pressure on her to speak. (as in telling her she was being rude not speaking)

Trigglesx the school are saying they haven't got the money to support her, but they only say that when I ask for support. They think she is mostly 'fine" and I suspect they think the anxiety issues are down to my parenting although as well as ASD and selective mutism she also has diagnosed separation anxiety and genral anxiety.

I have asked to speak to the Senco today _ though she may not be available. Fed up of daily struggle to get DD into school and then dealing with the 'fallout' at the end of the day.

Ask CAMHS to put something in writing for you to support your request for SA? (they did for me, so it can be done)

Follow up in writing that school have said they don't have the money to meet your dd needs. Good evidence.

Include anything that helps your case and don't include anything that doesn't.

Meeting SALT targets doesn't describe functional ability. Reaching 99th centile for example in a 1:1 assessment isn't much use, if your dd is not using her speech.

The school 'don't 'do' strategies for HFA and anxiety' and telling an anxious child to stop being rude for not speaking, are you sure a statement is going to help this school to understand your dd?

claw2 all I know is DD needs more support and understanding than she is getting at the moment. DD's needs are complex so I don't know if the problem is that the School haven't had adequate support themselves from outside agencies. (But surely they should realise that and get advice?)

The bit about not 'doing' HFA and anxiety is because the School didn't support my highly anxious, very academic DS3 diagnosed with autism in Y6. (Secondary school are so much better).

I have fought to get an NHS SALT experienced in dealing with selective mutism to work with DD this term. (Previously DD had SALT from an independent SALT employed by the School - but, basically, she wasn't experienced enough to meet DD's needs.) The NHS are providing 8 sessions and then the School will apparently need to 'buy in' the support. DD will need ongoing SALT after the 8 sessions which the School will probably tell me she doesn't need, or is too expensive, so I want that provision written into a statement.

If your ds has been seen by CAMHS by 2 years, that is pretty intensive therapy and they should have a really good idea of what makes her tick and what would help. If you are applying for SA, you will be asked what agencies are involved and the LA will write to CAMHS. Personally I would get in first and ask CAMHS to write something for you, so you can see exactly what they are writing and just how helpful it will be to you.

You want school to say that SALT is too expensive (if they do, confirm it in writing) this is evidence. This is exactly why your dd needs a statement, so its not too expensive and can be provided.

If school are not understanding the input from outside agencies, they need the direction of a statement to understand. More evidence that your dd needs a statement and school need direction to understand your dd's complex needs.

DD has been 'under' CAMHS for 2 years but they haven't given her any therapy! They have just come into school and observed her on a couple of occasions. CAMHS (or at least that particular psychologist) seemed flummoxed by how to do therapy as DD is selectively mute. I was offered six sessions for me to help me deal with DD's anxiety, but I declined as there was already a suggestion that I was unwittingly re-inforcing DD's anxieties. I was pretty sure they came from ASD - but once we got the diagnosis that offer of help has vanished. ( To be replaced by an offer to put DD on the waiting list for 26(!) sessions of psychotherapy - as 'no other CAMHS therapy has worked'!)

The 'useful 'evidence' I have from CAMHS is that a different psychologist who gave input to the diagnostic service wrote in her report about her concerns regarding DD's 'current presentation' and how her needs are complex.

This afternoon I did get to see the SENCO and the Head (who was covering the SENCO role last academic year). I got told that the School wasn't applying for statements any more as they were being 'phased out'. Apparently, our LA is a 'Pathfinder' and is trialling a new system. Then I got a bit lost but it was something about although DD wouldn't be eligible for on of the new Education and Health Care Plans, she (and 4 other pupils at the school) would be 'test' pupils for applying for some new top up funding arrangement. They acknowledged I could still apply for SA but Head said DD wouldn't get a Statement! I go ahead and apply don't I ?!

God it's never easy is it? You'd have a easier life on the crypton factor than working this out. I would say send the letter in and let the lea tell you if your following the wrong procedure.

The ipsea request letter only takes a few moments - you get asked for evidence when they acknowledge it ( at least I was) so I could have left out my reasons in the first letter or glossed over the nitty gritty. My evidence is done going in the post tomorrow. If nothing else it has formed a very detailed history on ds - so I sent it to his pead as well. Asking why he has no dx, will he get one and in the meantime here are a hundred issues - advise if coping with them. I feel exhausted. Fed up of saying how he can't do things well and just generally wasted out. But it's out there now, harder to ignore than yesterday and generally worth it

www.gov.uk/government/policies/increasing-options-and-improving-provision-for-children-with-special-educational-needs-sen

www.ipsea.org.uk/news/hot-topics/sen-green-paper-latest-from-ipsea-may-2012.aspx.aspx

Here is some info on what the SENCO told you. Others are far more informed about this on here and im sure someone will be along to give more info than i can offer.

According to these 'old statements will be changed to new Education and Health Care Plans' so it will make no difference, whether your dd has an 'old statement' if/when the bill is passed.

Apply now.

My LA is a 'pathfinder', ds got a statement regardless.

Thanks for the responses.

Yes that is my confusion with SA request 2boysnamedR - my LA has a form online that I can print off and fill in basic detals of why I am asking for SA - it is very similar to the ipsea request letter. But I want to know if (like you) I then get a chance to put in my 'full' evidence before they make the decision whether or not to assess. I think I'll ring the LA and check.

Thanks for the links claw2 - I have had a brief look - especially at IPSEA's comments on the proposals. The more I read about the proposed changes, the more important it sems to me to 'get going' with starting SA under the current system. It seems that most of the proposed changes will make the process of seeking support harder for parents - and there will be fewer legal safeguards.

Pannetone, I hit them with everything I had for SA request. They still refused and I had to lodge an appeal. I then started to gather more evidence for appeal (you will have about 6 months) they then backed down before Tribunal.

Hope this helps, I did standard IPSEA letter, listing difficulties and dx's.
All reports, IEP's etc that I enclosed, school already had copies of so was pointless holding back.

Then My reasons for believing that the school cannot on their own make the provision required to meet my child’s needs are as followings:

Ds has failed to make adequate progress with the extensive support he has and a Note in Lieu.

The level of support that ds requires is more than can be provided for from within the schools own resources.

There are too many areas of need and his needs are too complex for school to manage without the aid of a statement.

I then did sub headings Attention and listening, verbal comprehension, expressive language, cognition and learning, social interaction/understanding, self help, flexibility of thinking/routines, anxiety/phobias/emotional, delayed play, sensory/motor and visual impairment.

Example under expressive language I have written;-

Expressive Language – functional ability

Although ds can achieve average scores during formal assessment, this does not describe his functional ability. From 2009 to 2011 various professionals all identify difficulties in this area (enc 1). I see similar behaviour at home and have not seen any improvement. . This area remains untargeted. This is adding to ds’s anxieties (enc 24-31) ds’s self injurious behaviour has increased again (enc 36)

Dr XXXX and XXXX SALT February 2010 ds was seen for assessment by EP. The report shows a very able boy in all areas. However, Dr X and I felt that this picture does not describe his functional abilities (enc 4)

Another example under social interaction/understanding I have written

Ds has received social skills group 2 x week in school since xxx 2010, this has not been enough. From 2009 to 2011 various external professionals all identify difficulties in this area. I see similar behaviour at home and have not seen any improvement. ds did not achieve xxxx 2010 IEP target (enc 17). This target was removed before it was met. This area remains untargeted. This is adding to ds’s anxieties. Ds’s self injurious behaviour has increased again (enc 36)

Thank you claw for setting all that out for me. You put all that evidence in and your request for SA was still turned down?

I am feeling a bit overwhelmed at the end of this week. HFA DS2 has just started at uni and is finding the whole package of studying and independent living demanding. He has support but nothing compared to what he got at home from me! Have spoken to him on the phone today and it is so hard - he doesn't want to worry me or even maybe admit to himself the things he is finding difficult. And he has so much anxiety about not coping, to add to it all. And talking about any of this to me is tortuous for him.

Then DD has her 'everyday anxieties'that need to be dealt with (school swimming a major one this week) plus the need to get proper long-term support in place for her. And defending my parenting abilities in the meantime - at the meeting yesterday the Head was not at all understanding when I said it had taken til 8.45 to get DD out of bed yesterday. He made it sound as though I was just letting DD have a lie in rather than cajoling/negotiating/battling with her to get up and dressed. I put him right but it is exhausting dealing with the constant assumptions that I am a 'lax' parent.

To cap it all I couldn't get DS3 (also HFA) into school this morning. He was very grumpy last night and it came out this morning that he can no longer manage the teasing at school about him being friends with a girl. I let DS stay off and that has been another thing to sort out today. He is in Y7 and the School are being pretty good but it is still effort to go through the contacting them and explaining. (That sounds a bit feeble - I am worn out this week!)

Oh, and I had a meeting with a support worker at the local autism charity today about DD and she said DD wouldn't get a statement as she is too academically able. And she told me that I could use DD's DLA to provide her with 'extra' SALT - I just want the SALT DD needs to meet her SEN!

Blimey, no wonder you are feeling overwhelmed, you really do have your work cut out for you.

Its seems to be standard procedure to not even look at your SA request and just refuse to be honest. The LA prey on parents not appealing the decision and it must save them a lot of money. I don't think I even added any more evidence to the appeal, just lodged it and they backed down the week before Tribunal, again saving themselves money in the delay.

Autism charity are talking bollox is the short version! Ds is very academically able, he was described as 'gifted' at one point by an EP. Ds has an advanced reading age and is 'average' or above in most subjects. He always scores 'average' or above in most assessments. However he also has so many difficulties and 1:1 formal assessment do not assess functional ability. What is the point of scoring 99 centile in expressive language on a 1:1 test setting, if you cannot apply those skills to real life situations or transfer that knowledge to different situations!

Yes - I suppose if I take the view that it's likely my request for SA will be rejected out-of-hand I needn't fret about what evidence I put in now, because it looks like the evidence will only be properly considered if I appeal the refusal.

Not that I am in a rush to return to a tribunal situation - late last year we went to tribunal for disability discrimination by DS3's School. We won on the grounds that the School failed to make reasonable adjustments for him. We asked for permission to appeal a couple of claims we didn't get. That was heard at the upper tier tribunal this week. (I let DH go and put the case.) That is now at 'the end of the road' - we can't ask permission again if it isn't granted, and if it is granted, the judge will review those claims and that is the final decision.

Oh and then we also have DS3's claim for DLA waiting to be listed at tribunal! I must chase it up again. The guideline is 12 -16 weeks to get a hearing date - it has been about 30 weeks now! When I ring, each time I am told the hearing date will be sent out in a couple of weeks! If we succeed in getting DLA it will be backdated to when the claim was made - April 2012!

The autism charity told me i should contact parent partnership for advice about applying for a statement and whether DD was 'eligible' for one. From what I've read on here I may not get totally unbiased advice form PP...

No one can decided how 'eligible' your dd is for a statement, don't fall for all that old flannel.

I have used PP before, but not to decide whether ds was eligible or not, its not their decision.

It is time consuming, but you sound like an old hand at it already you know what to expect.

When I put in my request for SA, I took the standard letter from IPSSEA and added to it.
I listed the things I considered to be a "barrier to his learning" or a "barrier to accessing all of the national curriculum"
What you need to do is take each of the difficulties ( write them down) and turn each one into a reason why this is an EDUCATIONAL need.

I did not enclose any reports with this. It was he has this difficulty. this is a barrier to his learning because....

the school is putting in x hours of week support and I believe that he needs more.

I then was sent a lot of forms to complete to see if they would then do a SA.
This was complicated. It broke the information into lots of parts , What he is like at home, what his development was like, his likes and dislikes, etc etc. I quoted in this reply from all the reports I had and cross referenced them and added them as appendicies. I figured that even if the school had these reports they might not send them with their part ( some of them they did and some they didn't).
I also obtained letters from the Holiday club I had used that deals with SN's and they wrote about his difficullties in this. I used the fact that on H&S for him and others he had been excluded from Cubs, about specific incidents at school ( him running and hiding when upset, violent outburst etc) that if he were in this state of mind he and other children couldn't learn. etc.

Basically it was a thesis with a tonne weight of appendicies which were cross referenced in. I got a lot of help from my Parent partnership in wording this as they knew what the LEA buzz words were.

And what was the result of your request Ilisten?!

From what claw said above, about needing to show that my DD has not made progress, despite the support given by the School, do I 'big up' the support the School has given DD, (although I am not convinced they have done all they could), as I am concerned that otherwise the LA will just refuse my request on the basis the School hasn't done enough? If they refuse my request (and I don't win on appeal), how on earth do I make the school give my DD the support she needs, if the School are judged to have the resorces to meet them, but they don't see the need, or don't meet the need appropriately? Actually I probably know the answer to that having taken DS2's school to the tribunal for disability discrimination for failure to make reasonable adjustments...

They assessed. Ds has a statement. I got as far as the day before tribunal to get it amended to being enforceable and worth the paper it was written on. Las year I threatened the LEA with Judicial review if they didn't provide what was in it.
So far this year all is calm......( he is in Yr 8 now)

I wrote that DS was on SA+ and had been for several years and that school were now saying he needed additional support on top of that. I wrote that the TA in class for another child had been providing additional unfunded help and that this could not continue and that school supported the application ( they did and told me it was better if I applied as it was more likely to be assessed)

I wrote things like despite trying XYZ interventions this problem remains and he is still unable to access Y
Things like having tried earplugs, defenders, various other strategies there are group things he needs to be removed from and so he is not accessing the full Curriculum.

There was stuff about H&S and needing more hours to cover break and lunch times, etc etc It was all to do with how if he wasn't calm and settled then he wouldn't be able to learn and the OT and typing lessons needed due to his handwriting, and hypermobility issues etc.
We had also had bullying issues and being ASD the response was not appropriate from him so he needed the support etc.

DS has AS and is V. intelligent so it was not at all about academic levels. If I had had to do that it would have failed, it was about progress in other areas, so I was able to show he was falling behind socially and emotionally and physically, or that he needed continued input to continue to improve.

Whatever difficulties you have to write about you need to be able to show that this difficulty in some way is causing an educational issue, so if your DD will be like the typical "exploding can of coke" at the final straw that upsets her she needs to have someone to talk to at regular intervals that can discuss her issues and diffuse them before it gets to this point or she will not be able to concentrate and learn.... that sort of thing so although at first glance it doesn't seem an educational issue you need to show why it will become one IYSWIM