Help!! Does anyone know the CELF scores?? For DS Statatory assesment?

[2boysnamedR]

He scored
7 for sentance scructure
4 expresion / vocabulary
7 word structure

The SALT said at time his vocab was severly delayed but on her report it said moderate delay. He has never been seem by SLT in school.
He failed two targets at SA+
He has never been seen by a educational phycologist

God I need him to be assessed. His CT suggested that riding a bike would help with his dyspraxia, but at the route of dyspraxia, you can get both sides of body to work together! So yes if he could one day master a bike it would help fire up those duff conections, but he can't even keep his trousers up. He needs to get to the point where he could get on a trike, scooter and not go under a bus

In the NHS/LA world, 7 would be seen as a mild to moderate (more mild for most LAs these days), 4 I would imagine be seen as severe, but doesn't surprise me that the Salt is saying moderate.

When my DS was assessed for SA all 10 years ago he was on the 3rd centile and this was seen as severe, but oh how times have changed.

With his levels that low i would have expected some kind of input from the SLT. Have the school referred?

Lol!!! No the school aren't really doing much. They say each time I go in they will write, but I go in a lot so I assume most of its just talk. Thats why I put for SA - School told me he will never get it as they take a year to 'gather evidence' but I think failing two targets at SA+ is evidence that they can't / wont meet his needs?

Plus I have the stuff I sent off for his DLA

They said the ED pyhc isn't very good. They wanted him to come in to assess a kid for a statement. He said he would see her anyway when she got the statement - but no statement could be issued with his assessment. You get lost in the complexities of the bullshit system

The school said the EP was rubbish?!? Well if they are trying to put you off that's a strange way of doing it, or they are being unusually honest, lol.

They would need the advice of the EP (even if rubbish) as part of the SA process, seeming as you already know he is going to be rubbish according to the school, you will have to gather your own experts, then no doubt tribunal, however with those low SLT scores which were carried out by the LA, your already on the right path with your evidence

God I hope I can get enough evidence to get the SA without appeal. I am geeting a private SALT so when this gets turned down - as I must realistically expect I will have a honest indebth assessment of SL that is up to date. Its hard to trust the NHS SALT report. They have told me he is fine four times in the past and tried to sign him off, then he has that kind of score

I dont know what is going on with SLTs, I know the service is stretched but come on...this is getting stupid now. If your DS was even on the 10th centile I could say, not great but I know it is usual practice that SLT services say that is in the normal range, even some indi SALTs will consider that normal, but 4th and 7th shouldn't be ignored

Well most know my views and feelings towards SLts, schools and teachers so it is best I shut up

Deffo get private SALT. NHS tried 3 meagre toe-curling sessions with a student SALT(!) then tried to discharge. dd2 was 4yo and had severely delayed and disordered language.

Will anyone listen to a private salt report? Or do they get listened to at appeal? As the school has nothing to counter me with and nhs has stopped hence not up to date?

It's hard to trust the salt team when they tell you 'severe' then write 'moderate' and sign you off even though the child has need.

But no one likes to comit to anything in this area. I have a verbal dx but nothing in writing. I am going to ask outright for a written dx.

its sickening handy, really sickening with what is going on these days.

My friends son is non verbal, they get the TA to deliver his therapy, I personally think they messed him up in reception with the lazy moo teacher and TA. he started Y1 3 weeks ago and he is already making progress, but with that said his current TA is experienced, his first one was and still is a student TA who looked like she just left school also

get everything in writing, you want the assesment report.

The school and everyone else may ignore it, but if you get to tribunal then they will pay attention. The school may not have anything to counter you now, but as soon at the tribunal word pops up, then all of a sudden the EP, SALT and the rest of them will come out the woodwork and no doubt your DS will suddenly be "cured"

Well if this does nothing but give give some people a kick up the arse it's worth the stress. Unluckily des has a disability which is physical and mental so they can't 'cure' that one, unless they have a hotline to god. The ed phycologist and salt can take away his ot report. I hope they can't gloss it over. If I loose this I will be seeing the head every week asking why he is failing until its time to apply all over again. Why is this so hard?

I'm not sure about the SA process, my DS school basically said we want him gone and went overboard with what he needed a specialist provision so LA had no choice but to give him a statement plus it was when resources still existed and LAs less corrupt so it really was a stress free as easy a process you could get...

I remember being so upset back then, I now realise that if it wasn't for the school saying what they did he'd probably not have received any support and although I know their reasons were not honourable ( he had behaviour issues back then) it was the best thing the school could have done.

I'm sure someone will pop along and give you more advice regarding SA but I assume you will still need your indi reports. Ipsea should have some advice on their website.

Ds was on 0.4 for comprehension (understanding which 2 items went together from a choice of 3) and 2 for expression (giving explanations for his answers) This was described as 'an area of specific difficulty'

Ds's had a vocab of a 4 and half year old (he was almost 7) again described as a 'specific difficulty'

SALT recommended a DIY worksheet for school to do with him!

Hoxtonbabe those are standard scores, not percentiles (sorry I know its confusing). Standard scores run from 1-19 with 1 being low. The average range is 8 to 12, 2/3 of kids get scores between 8 and 12. So 2 boys your son is 'just below average range' which would be about 12th percentile except fir vocab which is lower, around 7-8th percentile.
I would say, if this is your only assessment evidence, that he needs salt fir vocab development but you would be very lucky to get statutory assessment without appealing on those salt scores, so it depends what other info you have.

Ilikemysleep -he doesn't recognise numbers 1-9 and can't spell his name either.

I like: I assumed centiles as it just said 7, 4, etc..

Well if that places him in the 12th then the LA and school will be saying all is fine. I agree though, with those scores more evidence will be needed. At present my DS has scores ranging from the 4th to the 75th centile however how he presents in everyday real life situations is what you can't get on these one off assessments that why I think it's so important to try and get some sessions even if private as the assessments are a snapshot of the child on that day usually in a quitet but familiar setting.

I think if he can't recognise number at age 7 then the EP should be paying a visit. Can he write and recognise any letters?

Sorry 2 boys I got you mixed up with claw with the age thing. How old is your DS?

He is six in a few weeks

What age is celf aimed at?

DS is 6 and the NHS SLT used a bit of pre school CELF for DS but it was too advanced and she made rubbish recommendations based on about 5 mins assessment. I thought DS could have done better (and would have done if his ABA staff had been administering it as he is more compliant for them). The private SLT said the NHS SLT had only done 2 subtests, not the full test, and there were other parts of the test he would have done much better on. She said to do the full CELF would have taken 1-2 hours and she would usually do it across 2 sessions.
The LA etc may not take account of private SLT report eg the recommendations etc but can't ignore test results so it would be worth getting a private SLT to administer tests to get a fuller picture. At least a private SLT can tell you if the results you have are the full test or just a few little bits. If the CELF has been done there are alternatives.
Does Cerebra cover dyspraxia? If so they give £500 SLT vouchers for those not getting NHS SLT.

Thanks for this information! He only had a sub set test as it took 15-30 minutes to do. I have found a private slt and I have to go private for my own piece of mind that I'm getting proper assessment.

NHS always do the bear minimum, it's as if they don't want to do too many incase it shows up all the problems. It was only when I got my first infi report for DS age 11 then I realised just how bad things were until that point although NHS SLT wasn't painting a totally rosy picture, she certainly wasn't showing the full picture.

I wonder if heads of the SLT dept actually say to only do the absolute minimum? I know lots of sen caseworkers tell them say to dumb down the findings or basically tell them to rewrite their report or they can't say xxx but I'm not sure how anyone can stay in such a job knowing the risks they are putting innocent children in.

I went to a indie lecture a few years back and the salt was ex nhs. She was told to tell parents there child did not require salt input which was totally different to their child would benefit from salt input. There is definite dumbing down in the nhs salt. Maybe not all but it's out there. My hv told me the salt queue has gone down a lot - because they see the parents before they see the child and a lot of parents refuse to accept their kids are behind maybe? I know quite a few parents in denial