I really want to appeal - please help!

[blueShark]

DS (ASD) has got a place at an ASD independent school out of borough which is the only one that can meet his needs and this is our parental preference.

Panel decided he should be statemented but remain at the same MS school and has awarded the highest provision that the borough offers to top up the funds he gets from the central SEN budget.

Considering they are offering the highest provision which at present doesnt mean anything until I see how they plan to spend it/what they propose in the draft statement do I have much grounds to appeal? School also supports my fear that even with extra provision his needs cannot be met due to environment and specialist support he needs which cannot be provided for in MS.

LEA wants a meeting with MS school, LEA, parents, EP and ASD outreach asap and urge me to get DS back to school with the additional provision they proposed pending the outcome of my request for a place at an indi school.

Anyone on here that has been in similar situation where school and parents know provision will fail but LEA still recommends the school?

I really need someone to come with me to that meeting and need to start calling solicitors, cant find that thread where people were recommending either advocacy and mediation or various legal reps.

Thanks for your help!

How strong is your evidence from the school that they can't meet his needs?

How much of that evidence can be covered up or denied by the school under pressure from LA?

How much of it has THEIR signature on it.

In short they won't place the child in a school if the HT says they don't want him because they can't meet his needs,

Would they put this in writing to you? To the LA?

I'm in a very similar position in that I applied for a SA for my ds last year, and his present MS school said they couldnt meet all his needs, and would probably become a school refuser if he stayed. I have a copy of the schools damning submission to the LA.

The LA nonetheless named the school, and I appealed. I elicited the help of my MP who contacted the Chief Exec of the LA. They agreed to call a meeting to look again at the placement. The school said very clearly in a multidisciplinary meeting that they couldn't meet ds' needs. But guess what? It made no difference, they still persisted in naming his current mainstream school, rather than my preferred specialist Indy.

So ds barely attended school last year and has attended 1 day this year. We have a hearing in a few weeks time.

I would waste no time appealing.

School 100% supports they cant meet needs, even most of the what OT, LEA and SALT have recommended cannot be accommodated for let alone independent reports. They can happily write to the LEA but IPSEA advised they dont as its best interest they finalise the statement and I appeal rather than them perhaps naming another school that is not current nor my preference. HT says they cant meet needs and it has been recorded in meeting minutes.

My biggest concern is why they are proposing a meeting between parents, LEA, EP, ASD outreach and school before they issue the proposed statement? Also LEA urges DS to return to school considering the extra funds have been approved pending the outcome of my request for a place at an indi school. Is it them just trying to cover themselves from the legal obligation that DS is in FT education? Surely the funds cannot be in place until the statement is finalised?

senmerrygoaround I am so sorry you are in similar situation, DS hasnt attended school this year. I have a feeling same will happen to DS that they will still name the school so whats the point for multidisc meeting esp before we see the draft statement? Did you take someone with you to that meeting or you didnt attend? Can you recommend someone for legal help?

OT, EP and SALT reports not LEA

The LEA has 18 weeks from decision to assess to issue the proposed statement.

My biggest concern is why they are proposing a meeting between parents, LEA, EP, ASD outreach and school before they issue the proposed statement?* I would put this question to them, and see what they say.

When I had a similar meeting (mine was after the statement), I had an autism advocate present and was very glad I did, as CAMHS and the EP were talking rubbish. She took the minutes which I circulated the same day, beating the official minute taker from school! My minutes became the official minutes!

I'm being supported by Fiona Slomovic.

Oops Quote fail above

Funds don't educate children, nor do they keep them safe. Only suitable environments and appropriately qualified staff do. His current school only has 'funds'. Whoopeedooo!

I have approached Fiona also. I will seek some legal advice but plan to reply and ask what is the agenda for that meeting and why is it taking place before the proposed statement is even drafted? Fair enough they authorised the funds but how they will be used?
I am also puzzled by the line when they urge me to send DS back to MS school with the extra funds pending my request for a place at indi.

yes star they expect me to jump like they are giving me the funds. School know the environment and staff is not what DS needs.

Thanks sen for the info.

so with lots of funds they will get some specialists (ASD outreach) involved to train his 1:1 inexperienced potentially and magic will happen overnight. They need another 100k to change the environment to make it adequate.

I would be tempted to insist that this can be sorted out via email. Ask them to send you the details of what they will be proposing at the meeting for your consideration.

Tell them on that only on that basis can you assess whether it is in your son's best interest to agree to a meeting that will most likely cause further delay to his placement in a suitable environment.

The reason for the meeting is clear. The LA are likely to lose if the child has not been placed/re-integrated into m/s before the hearing. But if the child is 'persuaded' to attend the panel may well rule to leave them where they are. Schools often say they can't meet needs but this does not prevent them saying yes or being a witness for the LA at hearing.

It's a bit like Name that Tune in reverse - even if you lose placement at hearing the provision and funding available in m/s is often increased following tribunal.

Thanks star and keepon.

I have emailed back asking the agenda of the meeting and how is it of benefit to DS? Have said until I understand how these 'funds' are translated into adequate support to support his needs we need to carefully evaluate when and if these meetings are necessary not to further cause delays to an adequate placement.

One question though and I am thinking ahead - if I do appeal and appoint solicitors, wont experts need to assess him again? And if yes would it be better if he is at the MS school where I know it will all fall apart or can they assess at home? Just trying to work out how is it that they will compare what LEA suggest and what I want.

LEA wants a meeting with MS school, LEA, parents, EP and ASD outreach asap and urge me to get DS back to school with the additional provision they proposed

We had a meeting like this before we got our statement. This is where the SEN officers make it clear what line they expect school etc to follow. Chances are they have the EP and ASD outreach (who they employ) all geared up to put pressure gang up on you / school. If school resist they will probably face criticism about why they can't do x,y and z when its within their job description / what is expected of mainstream and have all this funding etc etc

You will then get a statement with exactly what SEN officers, EP and outreach in a secret meeting that has already happened have agreed. They will probably tell you it will go to a panel who will rubber stamp the provision the SEN officer has already decided to award.

If school refuse to agree and say they cannot meet need even if all this provision is put in the statement, the LA will probably find another mainstream school weaker HT who will agree.

It really depends how much you trust the school to back you up under what will be extreme pressure (before tribunal our nursery staff were called in and subjected to a 2 hour barrage of questions criticism by a panel of 4 LA staff). Whether school will def appear as a strong witness for you at tribunal against the LA.

The alternative if you have doubts about school (or school agree to play along) would be to let them issue the statement, put in the extra support, put him back in mainstream and you (and hopefully school) then get together evidence that it is still failing (hopefully quickly)

Usually you have to prove even with all the top level support it will not work before you can win a more expensive placement.

Possibly a private EP coming in now would be able to say even with x,y and z that will not be enough. But then it is still your EP -v- their EP. But yes ideally you want the private EP to see the placement you are arguing against and the placement you want because it will look better at tribunal if your EP can talk authoritatively about the mainstream placement and why its not suitable.

If its SLT / OT that you need and mainstream can't provide there is a good chance just before tribunal or on the day the LA will suddenly offer loads of SLT / OT on top.

So tactically it may be better to put him back in and let it go wrong. Really sorry but that is the option which probably gives you the best chance of success and maybe the quickest route to what you want.

You have to balance the downside now against the risk you lose at tribunal in 8 months time because you have not tried this provision - are forced to try it - it fails - and takes you another year to get back to tribunal.

It really depends on how strong your evidence is so Fiona will def be able to advise.

thanks Agnes.

So concluding the meeting its not necessary and of no value to me and DS at this point I suppose when they finalise the statement only then the provision can be enforced in school and I may think to send him as I guarantee it will fail.

I am positive that school will back me up and aware LEA may name a third school but for sake of having an expert assessing him at the current MS environment and then compare the Indi school I may need to send him at some point.

I am sure Fiona will be able to advise.

I doubt very much you will get much out of the meeting. If its going to go to tribunal usually it looks good to have gone to meetings and so you look co-operative but if so go with the intention of saying as little as possible

Or you could just tell them to issue the proposed and not go.

It may be a meeting for them to test out how strong school are in their views (and how the school would come across at any tribunal)

On the day of our tribunal LA were saying asd outreach could come into mainstream and see DS daily etc etc (when they hadn't visited once in the previous 8 months!)

What is the job description of the ASD outreach and how is she going to enforce compliance when the only person that ever did was and ABA expert?

You are right about your assumption for the agenda, probably testing me what my intentions are and how far Iam prepared to go and how supporting and accommodating school is.

I will not say outright not attending just kindly asked to be forwarded the agenda and asked when planning these meetings they need to be mindful that they unnecessary don't delay DS getting the placement in adequate environment.

The meeting can go ahead without you. I did ask how it would benefit ds, object, the purpose etc, etc. Was told the LA like to keep communication open and work with parents and professionals, blah, blah. I did attend, said very little and took notes. Very inaccurate things can be said in your absence, my sole purpose for attending was to avoid that.

They are fishing, to try and find out what you have for Tribunal and who you have onside.

As I told you before, school supported me all the way up to Tribunal and then 'switched sides' at the very last minute. This put me at a disadvantage, I hadn't requested school file or insisted that IEP's were filled in and up to date, school also forgot to tell me that 20 hours of 1:1 had stopped etc. I thought school were supporting me. I lost at Tribunal, as I wasn't prepared.

DS1 had lots of assessments (9 I think) on the run-up to tribunal all done at home as he was out of school.

Nothing happens wrt LA assessments until as late as possible before hearing.

Indi EP could not assess DS1 in school but did a 3 hour visit and written report to assess the suitability of the LA named school following her assessment of him.

Ds was out of school, indi EP assessed ds at home. LA EP assessed ds in LA building.

I am reading this wondering what is going to be in the draft statement.
As I have read so many times in this board a SEN should not talk about £ it should list provision which should be specified and quantified.

From a parents point of view the £££ are a red herring. What you need to pin down in what exactly your DS's needs are and how these are going to be addressed - ie by who ( what is their qualifications) how often, how long for and exactly what they are going to do.
You want to make sure that the wording is such that "DS WILL RECEIVE" type wording - not as I contested "the school will use the funding flexibly to meet DS's needs) - how the hell could I ensure that was being done?

So if you do decide to attend the meeting, you are looking for specific interventions, by qualified people that are specified and quantified and that are those recommended in the professional reports.
Oh and take someone with you to make notes ( I took the Parent partnership - just as an independent witness!) it makes a huge difference.

thanks all. Good to know that DS can be assessed outside school and I dont have to dread about sending him to school and failing - although may be a vital proof for Tribunal. LA assessments were done fairly recently towards end of summer term so not sure if those will need to be repeated.

Good this about the school file claw I will ensure I have everything but they were very confident in communicating the grounds to the LEA although taking into account the legal obligation of having to accept DS if ordered to.

Thanks for the input Ilisten I will ensure I dont go alone, trying to work out whether to take a legal rep at this point and try to keep it low profile but I am also worried that a legal rep may drive the conversation at different direction or just to take an independent witness to take the minutes and distribute.

Waiting for LA to get back to me with agenda and FS to advise if its worth her attending at this point.

My LA repeated EP and paed and had their own SALT assessment (they backed down on OT but only because they didn't know that I was submitting an Indi report). There are SA assessments and then there are tribunal assessments.

They will do the assessments to submit reports and statements from involved teaching staff at final evidence deadline or may try to submit additional late evidence on the day. The idea is to have the last say ie the most recent evidence.

LA conceded on the day. The latest teaching staff were LA EOTAS tutors who were willing to write that m/s would never be suitable.

I would not have trusted the school to say this - it was hard enough for his tutor who felt she was putting her job at risk.

I am sorry, I might have missed this, but while this statementing business is all being sorted out, what provision is in place for your son? How is his absence being recorded? How are the LA ensuring he gets an education? They have an absolute duty to put something in place.

You need to speak to a qualified lawyer who may be able to get legal aid to challenge a failure to educate in the child's name.

Details of lawyers offering free initial consultations here

its all news to me but thanks keepon.

inappropriately - DS is out of school because of H&S issues without education which is what I will next write to them about, my concern was to get the proposed within statutory time limits first.

Talking about proposed, I know the statutory guideline states it needs to be drafted 2 weeks after LA makes decision to statement, does the 2 weeks start counting down from date the panel meets, or date parents are communicated outcome either verbally or in writing? The date they are committing to issue the proposed is well beyond the 2 weeks.