Main board discussion about specifying 1:1, or not by teachers.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/a1859219-Im-a-teacher-and-happy-to-answer-any-questions#41740309

I'm not surprised.

It just confirms what I've always thought.

I never thought that teachers actually read their pupil's Statements.

My cousin is a teacher.

At least she's honest enough to say it's an easy way to earn a living - even if she has to send her own children to private school, as she thinks the State sector is rubbish.

Zzzzz: this is the kind of thing IE is saying, the SEN system is rotten to the Core, we go though all that pain and stress to get to tribunal, get things straightened out, but then what happenes, the schools and teachers don't pay any real mind to it so then you have to start JR or battle with the LGO all of which takes time, before you know it your DS has left school with only 2 GCSEs at grade E and a smile.

Charged is an understatement, I can think of other things I would like to do.

I should go to bed, this thread is traumatising me as I'm getting so angry when I think about the attitudes of most schools and teachers, and before the jobsworths come on here and start I know there are some good ones, but they are far and few between.

Hmm but I do have education to your level so I'm not a idiot by any means. I work in area which I have no doubt pays far more than teaching so please do not assume I am stupid. Really would it be easier if all parents took no interest in their childs education? There are plenty who don't. Really I am doing very nicely so why should care if my child fails? He has the state to pick up the pieces at 18. Any idiot can work that much out. To be honest I don't know why I bover most days. I didn't know an awful lot about asd before I had children ( btw my son has not asd as far as I aware). I did however presume children with asd had their needs catered for in school. But I also beloved in Father Christmas too. Thank goodness my sons school is staffed by teachers who genuinely believe they are making a difference to children's life's. not in a school where a bunch of graduate took up teaching as they couldn't get a job doing anything else and it wasn't because they beloved in it.

Sad thing is Hox that we are the knowledgeable parents.

The teachers are totally absuing the trust of all those poor sods whose children have poorly written Statements but who don't know that and who still trust teachers and schools to 'do their best' for their children.

Wet: EXACTLY! My sisters LA tried that crap with her...they happily took on all her expert witness advice and plonked it in part 2 but then they only " approved" the non specific type of recommendtions and ignored the very specific parts, I told my sister to get on to them ASAP and it was from that they ended up at tribunal, if my sister gullibly accepted their draft the LA would have settled and my nephew would be done for now

She fought, and got into a specialist provision that he is already in 3 weeks making noticable progress.

When did caring about your child become a crime? One of my best friends is a teacher. She has a gift. He children are so lucky as she genuinely cares about them. She has seen hundreds of kids in her career but would never say she is a expert in sen. Lots of people have degrees now days. It doesn't make anyone a expert on all aspects of life. Even my sons peadiatrition and Ocupational therapist don't like handing out diagnosis. My sons senco tells me she is no expert in asd, autisum, ADHD etc but there will be people out there with very big heads who know better than anyone else. Like all walks of life, the world is full of people who are gods gift. Unfortunately their amazing gift really isn't improving the world for the better.

This thread has shown how murky the waters around TA's is. I cannot envisage other circumstances where a person is employed to help a person then using this time to help others especially where there is disability. As soon as a specifically employed TA for SEN is used for general class duties a conflict of interest is introduced. Personal experience was as my DS1 was gaining independence his TA would become involved in class duties and then miss meltdown triggers and these meltdowns were the biggest factor in his interacting with his peers and was more important than him working independently as it was this that killed his self esteem.

What I am so surprised about is how depressing I found that thread as if it was first time news.

Perhaps there should be a few more threads like it as I'm not entirely sure the teachers there knew they were breaking the law, or perhaps they have a perception that the law isn't real when it comes to disabled people!

Bloody hell, I sincerely hope that paperlantern isn't a teacher, due to both her attitude and her grammar!

Both 'there' and they're' when you mean 'their'?? Wow. As for her attitude, words fail me.

And I agree with zzzzz, we need to see charges brought for willful breaking of the laws that protect children with special educational needs.

But often it is being 'stolen' for the benefit of other children with disabilities or who are vulnerable, and who the teacher deems more in need so therefore fair.

It's the whole system that stinks though isn't it?

Teachers who aren't trained to teach kids with SEN, all too happily dumping things on a TA who often has no idea how to teach and no more training on SEN than the teacher.

Then, teachers abdicate responsibilities to the TA who is left to decide what a child needs and when. So, it is all too easy to say a child 'looks' ok to me.

So the whole system is often looking for guidance, and in fact stands or falls, on the quality of what is often the least qualified person in it.

This goes for OT therapy, SLT therapy, etc etc. All delivered by a TA who may, or may not, have any training.

It's little wonder that the research does show that TA support is often ineffective and frequently detrimental

But I would say that this is not because of the TA but because of the system the TA works in when s/he is expected to be all things to all people and where teachers struggle to manage even basic non-compliance issues in a classroom so are scared beyond reason by the thought of anyone being encouraged to do anythign differently.

The system lets teachers think it is someone else's problem, it let's schools see children with SEN as optional add ons (or even worse, an encumbrance), it leads statementing fights down one path - a fight for TA hours in m/stream or s/school.

None of it is working from top to bottom.

But even a trained TA can't make a difference to a child in a school with priorities other than the child the TA is employed to work with.

And those who are trained are about as listened to as parents are on the basis that they 'aren't teachers'.

The issue of dependence is not the reason why the TA is deployed supporting other DC. 'Testing them' appears to be no more sophisticated than judging that a child can swim because they don't seem to need buoyancy aids, removing them and then pissing off and supporting other DC leaving the statemented child to sink or swim.

It is no more than a 'clever' argument to justify current (illegal) practice.

The reason targets are all about asking for help or completing work is because these targets are actually diagnostic criteria and criteria for the severity of SEN. In practice, with an as yet undiagnosed child, diagnostic criteria have to be targets for years with only several years of failure taken as 'proof' of persistent need.

What about the well-being of the child who must fail spectacularly and over several years before they qualify for support?

I am amazed that teachers are so arrogant (although ignorance and arrogance tend to go hand in hand).

Can you imagine if prison guards said it just wasn't realistic for prisoners to serve their term and that they rather than the courts/prison service orders were the ultimate party that arbitrarily decided what happened in practice.

This goes for OT therapy, SLT therapy, etc etc. All delivered by a TA who may, or may not, have any training.

It's little wonder that the research does show that TA support is often ineffective and frequently detrimental

Totally agree IE.

In my early days of posting on this board, I had several dust-ups with posters who categorically stated that my son could have his dyslexia programme devised by a specialist teacher but then delivered by an untrained TA. This was precisely the method that the LA wanted too.

This was despite 4 years in a mainstream school of exactly that (in tiny class-sizes) - resulting in my son receiving a medical diagnosis of extreme anxiety and me being told that he was at severe risk of a depressive breakdown. After that escapade, I then followed this up by one year home ed with weekly sessions from two specialist dyslexia teachers. These two teachers were able to adapt and monitor his programme on a weekly basis (sometimes on an hourly basis). And oh boy did those poor teachers have to radical adjust some their sessions with him! But they did and could - precisely because they had years and years of experience teaching dyslexic students and both teachers had reams and reams of post-grad qualifications in teaching dyslexic children.

Mainstream qualified teachers from a leading indie mainstream school failed my son. It totally amazes me that there are many with the arrogance to believe that unqualified TAs will do a better job.

"But even a trained TA can't make a difference to a child in a school with priorities other than the child the TA is employed to work with.

And those who are trained are about as listened to as parents are on the basis that they 'aren't teachers'."

And that is my point.

The WHOLE system stinks. Making TAs better trained would only address part of the problem.

At the end of the day, a statement is not enough. It is words - law on the books.

To ensure we get the law in action, we need a seismic shift in the way the whole system, LAs, schools, teachers AND society view SEN and disability.

We need to move away from an idea that providing what a child needs is an act of charity which you will get if we can afford it to a conception that meeting needs is a fundamental right and God help you if you breach those rights.

We need to stop the pity parties around disability that makes the 'normal' folks see our children as second class citizens.

I see many parallels with the movement for race equality and the paternalistic views around 'helping' 'people of colour' so prevalent in the 1950s and 1960s as if there is a choice.

There is no choice. We need to demand equality and that means that the bloody provision on the statement MUST be put in place because this is what this child NEEDs to be on a equal playing field with their peers.

Zzzzzzz: I like your way of thinking, Jail em, LOL

I am really hoping we do all get together and tackle this once and for all, I am not even going to try and make any suggestion as to how, as I really do not know, but I am all ears and in to do whatever it takes. My DS is practically out the education door, but I vowed that even when he is in his 30s I will do everything I can to help as it really is BS.

All these bloomin teachers, TA, SEN caseworkers, SLT, EP, ect.. they go around making all these mindlesss decisions without a care in the world as to how it will effect the child in adulthood, no concern that our children will have limited opportunities not because they incapable but because they were negligent in their, duty behaviours and attitude.

If these university educated "professionals" had the same level of obstacles put in their way like our children have they would not be in the bloody job they now have now to then be able screw our children.

I have a couple of friends who are TAs and I've often been appalled at the views they've given in private - one is a TA for a primary aged child with ASD but often makes snippy comments about the parents being overprotective or lazy. I only know her through other friends so haven't had much of a chance to pull her up on it, but a lot of the criticisms she makes are things that I could imagine staff saying about me. The other is a general TA for SEN secondary pupils and she is pretty caring about her students, but when I talk to her about various SENs it's clear that she's had very little training, and I know she would probably fail someone like DS just through using completely inappropriate approaches.

The main board thread makes me feel angry, but also absolutely relieved that DS is in an indi specialist placement now and I can rely on all the staff to support him appropriately. He used to have a 1:1 TA before he got his ss place and it seemed impossible to police the system of having the TA used for other pupils. I have very little faith in any mainstream school meeting the needs of pupils with ASD, especially one with a fairly complex presentation like DS. I had to let DS fail in mainstream primary before we got our ss place, but I really think that was the least-worse path for us as I dread to think how he would have been if he'd ended up in mainstream secondary.

I fear that the Disability Rights movement is a more pertinent example.

The Tribunal Service is currently inundated with appeals following re-assessment. SEND tribunals are only a small part of what they do

EHP is moving the goal posts on a grand scale in a way that has been used effectively before. Under the new criteria it is very likely that some DC who have a statement will no longer qualify. In a similar way, capacity to work has been redefined with some no longer qualifying.

In practice the removal of a statement will not reduce progress because the statement was not being delivered anyway. I would predict that statements accepted without appeal following parental request will go and it will be declared a success because there is no recorded impact on achievement and progress levels.

Oh well - we lifted a few stones and weren't really surprised that we found what we predicted.

It does make you wonder if all the effort, the frustration, cost and anxiety we suffer trying to deal with this crappy system is really worth it when, at the end of the day, all you have is an Atlee document that teachers ignore.

DS was not dx'd until 15.7. He received his Statement at 15.11. It was in force, naming a school he was too ill to attend, for exactly one month before the LA immediately ceased it when he reached 16 and was no longer their statutory responsibility.

Given my time again, assuming that DS had been dx'd at an early age and knowing what we've all discovered, not just about 'the system' but how those hard won resources are misappropraited by ignorant and arrogant fuckwits, I would have taken him straight out of the state education system and home schooled.

Hindsight is a marevllous thing.

I was actually offered anothers childs full time 1:1 at Tribunal. According to SENCO from old school, ds didn't need full time 1:1, however she could offer ds 1:1 when he needed it.

Tribunal asked how this was possible if another child needed full time 1:1. SENCO gave a load of bollox about 'encouraging independence' and 'not wanting other child reliant on 1:1 support' and the Tribunal were totally accepting of this.

So this child's 1:1 could be removed when 'needed' to give to ds and Tribunal didn't bat an eyelid.

Ha, the irony.

Just spoken to the specialist ADHD nurse who has been into school to observe DS. According to her the class has only the teacher and an LSA. In fact she is the class TA who is being used for a child on SA 1:1 (son of the chair of the BOG).

Suits me, she says either the school provide 1:1 or apply for a statement but morally wrong that who parents are determines provision - not everyone can be chair.

People should be held to account. They are in my corporate job.

Like I say I like ds teacher but her advise to help my dyspraxic son is get him to ride a bike. Nice adcice but unfortunately that's exactly what he can't do as its a co ordination disorder where he can't use both sides of his body independently but I should take note as she is a teacher