Under new legislation, 60% of DC with a Statement will not get HSC Plan

[Doomsday2014]

Have name changed, but often ask questions on here.

I was at a meeting today where a high profile member of the SEN Dept of my LA was speaking about the Children and Families Bill and the implications for children with SEN. It was meant to reassure parents that children with SEN would be better off under the new legislation. However, the representative admitted that come Sept 2014, my LA's remit will be to ensure that only 40% of the children who currently have Statements will be considered to have needs complex enough to require a HSC Plan.

We were told that all children with Statements would be re-assessed under new criteria (this would probably happen at Annual Review), and that it could be the case that even children currently considered to require a fairly high level of provision, could potentially be left with nothing more that a PRA, which is not legally binding.

Even our LA (which has one of the highest tribunal rates in the country), admitted they were concerned about what would happen to those children who currently have Statements but would not be eligible for EHC Plans.

No one knows what the criteria might be for EHC plans, but apparently they could vary between counties, so no standardisation.

I'm really worried for my child.

will do - i have the flow chart in writing setting out the 'policy' so will forward it on

Hampshire's a leading Pathfinder in most areas, bjk. That will be why. For example, a lot of LAs follow Hampshire for their SEN transport.

My understanding is that if a child is issued with an EHCP and the parents wish to appeal, the Govt. has told the LAs they must then convert the EHCP to a Statement to allow the parents a route of appeal.

I don't actually think it's a bad thing to want a child to have had access to an EP before going down the EHCP route, if there is also a more rigorous expectation on schools to refer to EPs and if the EP departments don't ration schools to 4 assessments per year.

I'm still petrified, btw., just passing on the small amount of info I have.

Schools aren't rationed, they buy in services. I can't see the amount of service schools buying in suddenly changing.

There is also no legal basis for imposing a requirement which acts as a barrier on a statutory process. If you have the statutory right to apply for an assessment, you cannot have a blanket policy which says 'but only if....'

Additionally, converting EHCPs to statements only when parents want to appeal is madness and unlawful.

Firstly, it means that a child currently on an EHCP must not be on a statement, leaving them entirely without legal protection as an EHCP is not enforceable in the courts. They could not enforce its provision via judicial review for example and are no better off than if they were on SA+.

Secondly, it creates another barrier against appealing. Parents will have to know that they will have to request conversion and some parents simply won't understand what is going on.

Pathfinders can test these things but make them legal. Why not put Regulations in place?

I am not following this nearly closely enough, but all the signals from the politicians about this reform were "to reduce the adversarial nature" of statements, i.e. to remove the appeals to the tribunals. The policy is intended to make the provisions unenforceable and unappealable...

I expect that like with so many other things like this, they'll focus on shafting the new wave of statemented children and hope that those with statements currently will not challenge too much if they are allowed to keep their provision for a bit.

Thanks for the sen dp explanation. I don't think ds will get an echp plan when they come in, but he's not bad enough for a ssen now - it's more he starts secondary in 14 and I am really concerned about him coping. Esp with one level of sen only.

I'm really scared now. Had my social worker here this afternoon. There is talk of a free school opening here in 2015 for children with disabilities. The head proposing this school is telling parents that the LA will bring back all of the out of county kids to attend this new free school when it opens. My social worker mentioned the free school so,told her what the head was saying. She said that was right as when the new EHCP come all statements will go so thereby the LA can rename the placements! I'm doubly scared as my son has a placement won at tribunal which is out of county and in 2015 will hit secondary age. Of course we want him to stay where he is but have an awful feeling the LA will use it to move him. She also said that the on,y children getting them would be those with health needs and in our county - we are very small - there would be only one child. Seen seen a draft EHCP and its basic, very very basic and nothing is specified and quantified and its written as. Though the child has written it. What will happen to all the provision on statements that we've all fought so hard for? In the EHCP I looked at nowhere did it even name the school placement.

How many places will it cater for?

I imagine they will got to children chucked out of mainstream and those who are likely to be new OOC placements first, and I imagine the number of children chucked out of mainstream will be increased as schools don't like children with needs.

I'm not saying don't worry, and secondary transition IS a key time, but tbh it was always going to be. You will have tribunal-awarded WORKING provision, against an unknown quantity. It might be mentioned in case they can get away with it, but imo they will be seeking the soft target parents (who are knew to the system and will believe that EHCPs are whatever it is the LA want to define it as) first as well as the children who will cost more in mainstream.

bjk this is exactly what concerned many of the parents at my meeting who currently have DCs in out of borough or ind school placements. When questioned, our LA representative avoided answering whether these DCs places would be maintained and instead said "you've got to ask yourselves, do you feel that the education your DCs are receiving is really worth eg £150, 000 p.a?" It was what he didn't say that was most worrying.

The Bill is going to be in Committee stage in October at the HL.

Some of us have submitted evidence previously.

Perhaps we could do so again concentrating on key features such as:

-low take up of DPs
-experience of trying to get DPs
-trialling of EHCPs without legal provision being made to ensure -rights are protected
-evidence gathered from parents around country of what we have been told might happen

Anyone interested PM me.

I don't think that my ds' education is worth what it costs.

But it is better VALUE than anything the LA can offer.

So if they'd just like to deposit half of his school fees into my bank account, I'll withdraw him tomorrow and give him the 'adequate' education he is entitled to myself.

Star, I looked on 'what do they know' and funnily enough someone has already asked the following questions with regard to the trialing of DP in my borough:

Please confirm whether all parents/carers issued with a new or amended statement since January 2012 have been informed about their right to apply for a Direct Payment for SEN provision under the Special Educational Needs (Direct Payments) (Pilot Scheme) Order 2012. How has this information been provided? Please provide a copy of any standard leaflet or letter issued together with confirmation of the date of issue.

Response:“Personal budgets in education should relate to needs that are significant enough to need additional and individual support above an beyond that which is normally available and funding to meet these needs, from the high needs block (element 3), should be considered for inclusion in a personal budget. Funds that are delegated to schools and colleges will not normally be in scope for inclusion in a personal budget, unless the institution has previously agreed to this. Personal budgets must not be used to fund a school place” Indicative Code of Practice 2013.

Please confirm the number of parents/carers who are receiving SEN Direct Payments and what those Direct Payments relate to.

Response: There are no parents/carers receiving DP’s in relation to
funding SEN provision (see response to Question 2 above).

Well what do you know..........

Lying Feckers!!!!!!!!!

Quite!!

I don't know how many children it will cater for or even the type of child. I have heard that it will be for the more severe level of disability so that kinda rules my son out. my sons statement currently states a special school for children with autism, plus lots of OT and SALT provision - cant see the free school offering all of this. the school that the head currently runs in another county which this school will be a model of refused to accept him when asked last year as said school could not meet his needs. most of our kids are out of county as the county has no special schools. so if they try to just cut provision when they transfer the statement over Im guessing we can appeal but its all going to be so new to everyone that the tribunals are going to be rammed with parents fighting to get our provision back - surely this system was meant to make life easier for us not to scare the living daylights out of us

my other saving grace will be they will have to name secondary placement in feb 2015 - school wont open until sept 2015 so would be untested. at the moment the school hasn't even been approved or any premises even found but was on the front page of our local paper asking for parents views. he did that 6 months ago so im guessing not enough parents coming forward as we are all happy with our out of county placements and so to protect our kids are wary of this school.

Also, because there is talk of abolishing the SEN tribunal and introducing an amalgamated tribunal which deals with education, health and social care services, this could potentially complicate matters further and could mean longer waits before appeals are heard.

Probably why LAs are so desperate to keep kids in mainstream schools so they can just dump and run when this Bill becomes law.

This is my fear: that echp plans will be reserved for those children and young people who are expected to need life long residential or care support and those who might go on to become financially viable, and with 'mainstream' lives won't qualify. BUT without support in childhood and teens, may not achieve this.

But how are they going to stay in mainstream schools without even untrained TAs to babysit?

They'll just deal with that when it comes to it. The whole system works only on evidence of failure.

Well I expect my son to quietly fail, confused by the hugeness of secondary and hardly touched by maybe twenty minutes once a week with a ta for a 'social' group. And maybe a toilet pass.
Of course he won't - he has me as a mother

I went to the Hampshire Special Schools Conference today and the subjects covered were EHCP plans, the Local Offer, Pupil Premium and Maximising effectiveness of TAs.

I was slightly wrong on my understanding. Hampshire as a pathfinder is trialling EHCPs, but anyone who is going through the EHCP pathway is also going through SA in the traditional way, to protect their rights in law. So those children end up with a Statement and an EHCP.

There's new legislation that gives a statutory responsibility on CCGs (Commissioning Care Groups) that they will provide the health services specified as needed in an EHCP for the first time now, so no more battling for health needs to go in part 3 rather than 6 type issues with EHCPs. Also, protection up to the age of 25.

Slightly worrying, though, the protection from 16-25 is that the young person can name the setting they want to be educated at and the young person has the right of appeal to SEND, not the parents, unless they are legally deemed to lack capacity.