question re statmement and secondary school applications

[edithmaud]

Am really stressed about this and would appreciate some advice. In the upcoming autumn term, we are going to start the process of applying for a statement for DS 8yo who has Asperger's. He will be going into year 5. The thing is, I know if can take bloody ages, and I would love to have a statement in place by the time we apply for secondaries (he's in MS school), as I think it is absolutely crucial that he's in a school that's good at supporting kids with ASD. That gives us one calendar year, but I know it can take longer than that. My main question is: if we don't have it when we send off the secondary application form, is it of no use if it comes later? or, say, if it comes after we apply for secondaries but before they inform parents of where you're child is going, could it still help? Am so worried and wish we'd started it earlier. Superstressed - have visions of him floundering in a really unsuitable school and I'm really upset with myself.

Yes. You can name the school just before the final statement is issued and there are very few reasons for it not being agreed.

However, if you go the long way round (appealing at every stage) a statement can take up to 18months.

Why are you waiting until the autum? You can send of your request today. You need very little supporting documentation at this point, though I would urge you to get yourself a copy (or download) the SEN Code of Practice.

Thanks starlight. Yes got a copy of the code, am only waiting til autumn coz I've been told that there are no more panels between now and sept who can agree (or refuse) a request to assess. So even if I sent it now nothing will happen til sept.
re what you said about naming a school before the final statement, what if that school is already full at that point? Presumably they couldn't then offer my DS a place? Also, I thought most statements didn't name a school? Or do they?

I don't know how difficult it's going to be and whether there'll be many appeals or not. DS is meeting most national levels but has huge emotional, anxiety and concentration issues and has made no progress across the curriculum in year 4 despite being on SA+ all year. So it's hard to predict...

If you start believing what the LA tell you from the outset you'll not get very far.

Submit your request today. Panel or no panel (btw there is no such thing as a panel, at least not one that is recognised by law) they have 6 weeks to make a decision whether to start a statutory assessment or not. They are allowed to discount August, but there is a week before that, which means you'll get your decision first week of October.

If you wait until mid-sept you'll get your decision end Nov.

If they refuse to carry out a SA and you have subsequently gathered additional paperwork, you can submit this at the end of the first week of October, the day after the refusal, and have your decision before the end of the first term.

It is the 14th February when places are allocated for SEN for the following academic year. If they agree to assess, you could request a fast-track to meet this deadline. This request will have more credibility if you began your journey in July rather than September.

As for the rest, if the school is full, but you have named it, you still have the right for your child to attend. However, the school might try and argue against going above numbers so whilst this might be your right, it might mean not starting off on a good foot. It would be sensible therefore to put in your application under social and medical needs, the evidence that you are currently undergoing statutory assessment and that you will name their school (though of course the SA might bring up information that means you change your mind about school place).

Brilliant starlight, thank you! My other problem is that DS's school says that they don't have enough evidence yet to credibly request an assessment. They don't do IEPs,they have pupil profiles instead. But in the absence if IEPs they're still supposed to be setting smart targets etc but they haven't been. They also haven't yet brought in any of the autism outreach people. So they reckon it will be refused if I do it too soon, they say it'll be turned down on the grounds that they haven't yet done enough for DS under SA+ or gathered enough evidence that it has failed. It's so fucking frustrating. I feel so let down. His end of year 4 report says he hasn't made any progress this year across the curriculum, so I thought that would make it bloody obvious he needs more support.

edithmaud I'm interested that you say that as my school said exactly the same. Well actually they do do IEPs but haven't done one for ds . I am absolutely no expert at all, but in your shoes, with the very little time that you have I think I would just go ahead and submit the request now.

I wouldn't worry about any of that edithmaud.

You can argue that your child needs provision in addition of what the school is able to provide, because if they were able to provide it, obviously they would have, given your child's needs, right!? Provision based on need and all that.

Or, the needs of your child are so complex that the school either weren't equipped adequately to recognise or they did but just didn't know WHAT they were supposed to do to meet them, otherwise they would have right? So a SA is essential, in order to fully assess need.

And finally 5:62 of the Code of Practice: 'In some cases there will be existing reports or written advice from external agencies that should be included in the documentation, however where there is no such evidence LEAs should not require it in order to decide whether an assessment is needed.'

The school will have a)the school record (which you must request) and b) other data on your child which you must also request. This will possibly be their SEN file, and all communications about your ds.

You can get the above by submitting a subject access request. You can be waiting for that during the first request for SA and if it is refused you should have this information before the end so can add it and resubmit.

My god you're brilliant starlight! What would we all do without people like you who not only know their stuff but have the generosity to share it- thanks!

You're welcome.

Just one thing though. None of this guarantees a statement, nor do I have a clue as to whether your ds needs one.

He may not. With better support or a better school, it could be a completely different picture.

However, I would personally still continue with a request for a SA, because the very least it does is kicks the current school into action to start supporting him better and to keep better evidence, which, regardless of school will help with his transition and the secondary get necessary support in place in advance of him starting.

No I totally get that there are no guarantees. But I'm so overwhelmed by having to take in so much new information that it's good to get help.

Just another point - don't let them get away with any more excuses. The time limits for the different stages in the process are set out in the Code of Practice and the regulations at the back, and also the limited circumstances when the deadlines don't apply. Local authorities are great ones for trying to fudge that. If they go even one day over any deadline, tell them you'll take Judicial Review action, that should wake them up.

The IPSEA website does model letters to help you make that first scary step of requesting an assessment. Stops you getting stuck in "analysis paralysis".

www.ipsea.org.uk/ There's a page on applying for a statement with those model letters I mentioned.

It's NOT your problem if his current school has been too slack to gather evidence - an application from you TODAY will give em the kick up the proverbials to crack on with it . Also I'm convinced that 99% of parents are told some useless excuse as to why their child doesn't qualify for a statement when they first enquire. Fobbing off is an effective way of rationing resources.

You do have to apply for a secondary for a statemented child in year 5, not year 6 when everyone else does. This means that places in special units etc can be allocated properly and that mainstream schools get sufficient time to recruit TA's and generally prepare for the new arrival. It's a key reason why we are in the process of moving as my son is heading into year 5 and I've finally found a secondary that may suit him.

Star and the others are right about the time limits on statements etc. Apply NOW lest you miss the boat. Your initial application letter doesn't have to give chapter and verse. The LA will write back to you with their pro-forma to get you to input your full reasons later on.

Oh and just for the record "the panel" is a convenient excuse used by some LA's for all sorts of nonsense and prevaricating, delaying tactics. I was so shocked to hear of one that meets weekly throughout the summer, when my current one has bi-monthly meets at certain times of year. The weekly one is happy to tell you who attends, (varies a bit depending on what SN's they are dealing with that week - no point in having a SALT when it's an articulate blind child under discussion that week iyswim) The bi-monthly one is shrouded in secrecy. The law states they have a time limit to get their job done, office politics around how they achieve that isn't the parents problem.

A development: just received an email from school today saying they will NOT support an application for SA at this stage. Is that normal? Am really not dealing with this very well, just feel so upset. I think if I didn't have the worry of secondary school looming I would cope better. Maybe I should just forget about the timeframe for secondary applications...?

Oh ignore the school. Seriously. In a way it helps. Their deliberate obstructiveness means you don't have to tread on eggshells, but rather get your steamroller out.

The usual reasons for not supporting an application is because your child getting help will not get them anything but drain some of their resources. It is likely his support will have to come out of their allocated SEN budget which isn't ringfenced and subsequently can be spent on new sports equipment if not used for your ds.

By the way, what prompted that email?

I emailed them about a few things, informed them that we'll be submitting a request to assess in september, but was also a bit critical about what they've done for DS so far. And so this is what i get, despite being told verbally by the senco that they would support an application. normally i'm a capable, efficient, tenacious person (honestly!), but this year has knocked the stuffing out of me, and i'm a bewildered, babbling wreck. I'm fixated on the secondary school application (ie having a statement in time) but maybe there are ways round that....(don't know what they are of course!)

Submit it now. Don't tell them. Just do it.

ASAP submit a subject access request (you'll find model letters online) for the school file and for all other communications about you or your child.

If he has any agency intervention (ASD outreach/SALT/OT) then submit a subject access request to them too at the same time. They will weed, but you can see a conversation they pretend didn't happen from the other agencies information iyswim.

YOu might like to respond to the email saying 'But on x date at y time, Mrs Senco informed me that my request for SA would be fully supported. What new things have come to light that have made her change her mind?'

You'll probably not get a response but you then have this as evidence that the school are a bit flaky.

Thanks I can easily work out the date that it was said. Btw is a subject access request like a freedom of information request?

Yes. It's under the same law, but freedom of information is about getting general information such as accounts for the year, and subject request is about getting personal information iyswim. This is stricter as they cannot supply anyone with YOUR information, only you iyswim.

Thanks starlight, very good to know about.