Educational Psychologist

[CalmlyApproaching]

Any idea what a ball-park figure would be for an EP to do an analysis of my DD's learning abilities? South East area.

Also, do school have to take any notice of a private EP report? We are only considering this path because the waiting list is so long in our area, DD won't be seen by a Council EP for at least another academic year .

If we can afford to go private, at least we will know what we are dealing with and so can take some action, rather than waste another year.

TIA

Hi,I'm in Essex and my ds is at an Independent school so we have to pay for the EP.It cost £500! However we have a very comprehensive,detailed report with lots of recommendations.We are thrilled to bits.
We were told by the school that as the report is for us,they have to ask our permission before reading it and putting any strategies in place.Do you mean will the school take notice of a report that they haven't requested?If so,I can't see what benefit they could get from not taking notice iygm.Hope that helps.

Thanks disorganised. That is quite a bit, but about the figure I was expecting. Gulp.

Good to hear you are pleased with your report. Were the recommendations useful, practical ideas that you and school could use?

Yes, I am wondering whether as the school won't have officially commissioned it, they won't have to take any notice. So, if for example, they say that DD needs x resource or y strategy, they may say, we can't/won't and that'll be that. The school/Council are very stretched - hence the 12+ month wait to see an EP. DD isn't progressing very much at all, but is not yet two years behind, so not a priority to them. Sigh.

calmly - is your DC in state school or private?

Private will accept an independent EP without too many problems from them. The private school my DS was in (also in Essex) welcomed the reports with open arms, mainly because they were clueless in 'solving' DS's problems.

However, I have heard that state schools will say that they don't have to accept the findings of an independent report. I have no idea how they can justify this (ie there is not a law that bans this) but it does seem to be a lot of state schools' position and they will dig their heels in.

My dd saw EP last Friday it cost £450. I'm still waiting for the report but having met the woman and discussed dds problems I feel much happier.

I haven't broached the findings with her school yet though. She recommends dd work from a laptop - I'm not sure how well that will go down.

Apply for a statement. The IPSEA website tells you how to go about it. By law the EP will HAVE to see your child within 6 months. Save your cash for the next fight.

TOWIELA - state school I'm afraid. Hence my concern about them not taking it seriously. They have limited resources and DD isn't seen as a priority, as while her learning progress is slow and not in line with how bright she appears, she isn't in the bottom few of the class and so isn't getting any input.

She has been referred to the Council EP, but is low priority. Hence nothing is going to happen for at least 12 months until she sees the Council EP. I don't want her to lose a year just waiting, when I am sure there are things that could be being done now to help her.

However, £500 on a report that tells us useful stuff, but that school ignore isn't necessarily money well spent

Im in SE and have paid for 2 indi EP reports previously ranging from £1,000 to £1,300 (depending on how far they have to travel etc)

Without a statement schools can choose not to take a blind bit of notice of anything an EP or anyone else says.

bumbez - I'm pleased for you. Why a laptop? Good luck with your school.

bochead - don't think we would get a statement - DD isn't behind enough. I looked at IPSEA in the past and it seem to be for children who were really, really struggling. DD isn't just yet, but she is slowly and surely falling behind her peers, and I can see the gap widening as nothing is done.

calmly - that's what i thought, was shocked when ds got one at the first attempt! all it'll cost you is the price of a stamp.

claw2 - £1,000+ . Ouch!

You are confirming my fears that school may just ignore a private EP report. Sigh.

Any ideas?

We don't know what the problems are yet to say how they are interfering in her learning, so really don't think we would get a statement at this stage It all feels a bit circular.

bochead - really! Did you have strong grounds?

Calmy Yes the recommendations have been very useful and the school who wanted it done in the first place literally breathed a sigh of relief I felt when they read the 13 page report.They have been amazing.we're very lucky.
We're at the very start of the process.I want ds to be assessed for Aspergers,the school has said they will do what ever they can to support ds.We are very lucky.
I'm afraid I don't know whether all schools are like this.

calmly - to be honest with you, I was very glad when we commissioned private reports. Because of the school, we had no idea if the school was not coping or if DC's needs were severe. We really didn't know. So after we were refused SA with the LA's comments 'no-where near SA', we commissioned a lot of reports to try to totally get the full picture.

We now have the full picture and although it has made for some very grim reading, I now know the problems my DC faces. I don't regret any of the indie reports whatsoever and, money willing, I'd commission them all again in a heartbeat.

disorganised - your school has been so helpful because it's an indie school so it's totally up to them if they accept the report or not. They are not beholden to anyone or in the pay of anybody else (such as the LA)

Calmly adequate progress

SEN COP 5.42 states adequate progress as 

"Closes the gap between the child and their peers
Prevents the attainment gap growing wider
Is similar to that of peers starting from the same attainment baseline, but less than that of the majority of peers
Matches or betters the child?s previous rate of progress
Ensures access to the full curriculum
Demonstrates an improvement in self-help, social or personal skills
Demonstrates improvements in the child?s behaviour"

The whole point of the SA is to identify what the problems are and to say how they are interfering in her learning.

Anyhow why are the school saying that EP cannot assess?

The EP can assess as soon as the school refer and the funding is provided. It really doesn't take that long.

Chances are the school hasn't referred.

Claw2 Thanks for your help. DD was doing ok - average in infants. Now at juniors, the gap is appearing, and she is not making progress. Still is still within 'normal' though iyswim? However, we can see that without something changing the gap will get bigger.

The SENCO says she has referred DD, but that they only get a certain amount of EP hours per school, and DD is way down on the list of priorities. So while she is on the school list to see the EP, there are lots of children that will be seen earlier. There is no money to increase the amount of EP time they can buy in.

Potential issues fwiw - I think, maybe auditory processing, working memory, attention, concentration, sensory issues? DD can do and understand complex things but is very inconsistent and still can't get number bonds to ten reliably, but does understand mechanics! She reads poorly but has good comprehension. She has been tested for hearing and eyesight and both are normal. She can do hama beads and has a wide vocab but struggles to write a sentence legibly that is more complex than 'I saw a dog it was big'. She fidgets constantly and find it hard to be still. She is 8.

Calmly 'she is not making progress' and 'gap is appearing' is exactly the grounds for applying for SA as per SEN COP.

My ds is 'above average' academically. My ds has a reading age well above his years and a high IQ and scores 'above average' in formal assessment. However formal assessments do not assess functional ability, he struggles with lots of things.

A private EP report (if you can afford it) is well worth getting, even if school don't take any notice of it, at least it will give you a better idea and some evidence of exactly what the difficulties are.

Hearing tests and eyesight standard testing, doesn't cover auditory processing or tracking difficulties. My ds's hearing and eyesight is 'normal' in the traditional sense. However he has difficulties with auditory processing (from OT) and a dx from specialist of eye disorder to do with tracking (common in ASD)

"There is no money to increase the amount of EP time they can buy in" ask the school to back your request for SA, then there will be the money for an EP assessment.

What Claw wrote with particular reference to the SENCOP.

Do not for one minute assume that your DD would not receive a statement because she is "not far behind enough". It does not work like that at all, the only criteria for a statement is actual need of one. Your DD I would argue needs a statement.

You are your child's best - and only - advocate here. You also need to think longer term. She will one day be at secondary school, how would she manage there?.

Why not approach the school, armed with SEN COP (the laws) definition of adequate progress and ask them to back a request for SA? they worse they can say is no. It is far better to have school on board.

From what you have said your dd is not making adequate progress. The gap between your child and her peers is growing wider, it is similar to that of peers starting from the same attainment baseline, but less than that of the majority of peers, it is not matching your child's previous rate of progress (the gap is growing) etc, etc as the SEN COP.

Your dd might be making some progress, but not adequate progress, point this out. Tell them you would like to apply for SA with their help, to identify and fully understand your dd's difficulties and how this is interfering with her learning.

And download a copy of the SEN COP (totally free), im sure you will find lots of other helpful info in there.

OP if u apply for SA even of it is rejected you have nothing to lose. When a req for SA is made it will make the school take action. I was told that it would take 6 months for an EP to see dd, within a week of req SA I had an appt with an EP!

Ok, I get what you are all saying. What do I need to prove the lack of adequate progress? School are being very nice and helpful, but it feels a little like they are minimising the issues and aren't too worried. I am lol! But I am not sure if they would support me, or whether it would get their backs up. This of course is important as they are the ones that are working with DD on a day to day basis and would have to implement anything in a statement.

So, what evidence do I need? DD has made no progress from end of Year 2 to Year 3 (they say due to inflated/wrong year 2 results, and that according to the tests they did on entry to juniors, dd has made progress, although it is still the same/below her Year 2 levels a year ago). They put this down to the different environment between infants and juniors, but to me it shows DD really struggles when 'left to it', which is how it works from now on in.

What else is there?

That sounds like very good evidence in itself! Do you have IEP's? any expert reports?

I would definitely ask school for their support first, so much easier if you have them on board.

"They put this down to the different environment between infants and juniors" yes, you agree with this totally, your dd is obviously struggling in this environment and the increased demands. Which is exactly why an EP needs to assess.

Hiya. Not seen an IEP. We have been seeing the SENCO since the start of Year 3. Started off because of behavioural issues - fidgeting, leaping about, and is now morphing into concerns about academic progress - behavioural issues are still there but a little better. DD can sit through assembly fine for example. No expert reports. SENCO has observed her in class - shows signs of sensory/attention issues but also can be well engaged and enthusiastic. Just not able to do number bonds or write!

I agree that dd is struggling to learn in the junior environment, but SENCO view is that she is not having significant enough issues to warrant being bumped up their EP priority list. Hence my concern they will not react well to me applying for SA. Hmm.

Behavioural issues are barriers to learning. Im assuming your dd doesn't have a diagnosis?

In the meantime you could ask your GP for a referral to a paed and a sensory trained OT (long waiting list). You can also ask for a referral to SALT, if your dd has any speech, language, communication difficulties. Not necessarily an obvious speech delay etc, but difficulties with social interaction or communication for example or attention and listening difficulties.

You could ask the school for ASD Outreach worker, who are far more readily available to schools (you don't need a dx of ASD, just ASD 'traits')

With all due respect to SENCO she isn't an expert!

School might well respond badly to you applying for SA, as some see this as a criticism, which is more a reflection of them, not you. Make your concerns clear, in line with what the Law defines as progress SEN COP (in my experience some schools are not even aware of this and again don't take kindly to their inexperience being pointed out). However, they should be able to be professionals about it.

It is not a criticism of the school, you can see that they are trying very hard to help you dd. However, as a parent and your dd's advocate, you would like to exercise your right to apply for SA (with their support if poss) to identify and fully understand your dd's difficulties and how this could be interfering with her learning as you both in agreement that she is struggling in the junior environment.

Why would any school object or take offence to having a struggling child's difficulties identified!

calmly

Why a laptop ?

I'm not sure to be honest as I've yet to read the report.

But dd has been found to have poor working memory. I don't have a definite diagnosis probably dyslexic and possibly mild dyspraxia. She was quite fidgety during the assessment and was noticed to have an odd pencil grip.

Her verbal reasoning and non verbal reasoning were 97th and 95th centile overal IQ 125 .

Learning times tables however seems impossible, she never knows what day of the week it is and is far from fluent with reading so I guess she still needs to be in the lower ability groups.

Senco told me not to do the assessment and that she would have another look at her (they had screened for dyslexia in year 2 which was negative) but I went ahead anyway not wanting to take it away from another child iyswim.

She is in year3 state school which to be honest has been great, however now that I have concrete evidence I can go back and say this is her potential stop telling her off when she's not looking at the front she's trying to use the number line to work out her answer. she also got kept back from PE a few weeks ago so that she could finish a peice of work.

For me if school can't help her I will and am hoping the report will give me some pointers on what to do.

Hth :)