Semantic Pragmatic Disorder

[Handywoman]

Has anyone had this dx given to their dc?

With regard to dd2 we have been on this diagnostic merry-go-round now for four years (half of her life!). If this round of assessments is negative for ASD (NHS appt for ADOS expected around Xmas/New Year 2014) then I will press our private SaLT to change her diagnosis of 'specific language difficulties' to something more label-sounding(! Yes, I am looking for a label!!!). Semantic Pragmatic Disorder sums dd2 up beautifully, because this is where the deficits lie. The more SaLT we do, the more these areas stand out, and also the more impaired she seems when these areas are probed.

I am so weary of the dx process, now. All the uncertainty and waiting are having an effect on the ability to enjoy my bright and lovely child and interact with my friends, who can't see what the problem is and often, I suspect, feel I am making the whole thing up/looking for problems. It is very isolating. I need to have an endpoint for the sake of all of our family.

My own preference is for a diagnosis of ASD for her (based purely on the fact that the interventions will be the same just potentially easier to procure, and a dx of SPD will only flummox dd2's school and the SaLT report will just sit gathering dust in the SENCO's office). But I realize a dx of ASD is beyond my control (and that of our private SaLT, who believes ASD is the right diagnosis).

Has anyone received this dx for their dc? What (if any) has been the effect of this dx?

I suspect not many will reply to this, SPD doesn't seem to be commonly diagnosed at all. But I live in hope!! And might bump this from time to time, in the hope of catching a passer-by.

Thanks!

x posting there.... 20:14:29 was the post I meant

My eyes, my eyes!!!!!!!

A sin has been committed for which I am most sorry.

Can anyone tell me more about SPD being HFA from the SALT perspective?

In that case, ArthurP, my diagnostic Plan b for dd2 is out the window. On the NAS website the jury is still out (they dont appear to have updated their SPD page for ages ) but I will ask my private SALT her view. I guess that (again) in terms of the NHS it depends where you live.

I'm not sure I buy that. It may well be that SPD is HFA...I don't have any knowledge of it. What I do know, is that the logical test of the argument is flawed.

"ALL autistic people have semantic pragmatic disorder, that is a very accurate description of the language difficulties that all autism has. So therefore SPD is HFA by another (older, discontinued) name."

All squares have four sides, it doesn't follow that all shapes with four sides are squares.

All cheeses contain milk, it doesn't follow that all foods containing milk are cheese.

That's fair enough, Arthur. I was saying that the argument as stated by you previously was not logical. The statement you've clarified with is logical. I still don't know if it's true, I've not looked into it, but it's logical.

I used to TA sometimes with a child who had SPD (in year 5), so I will tell you what support he had. He was statemented for at least 15 hours support which covered mornings. I don't think he did SALT as his spoken language and expression were quite good; most of his support outside school came from handwriting and reading resources. His 1:1 support was focused on filtering information appropriately, keeping him focused (he was a both dreamer and a class clown!), and scribing when necessary.

Hi,
My dd who is now 9 was diagnosed at 5 with semantic pragmatic language disorder by her SLT. She also has dyspraxia and SPD. I read a really interesting article by margo sharp in the sen magazine. Sorry I can't do links. I came on here and asked for advice and I was recommended to get dd assessed for autism. I'm living in Ireland. I brought her to a top well respected Asd psychologist who did the DISCO. (It cost a small fortune but she is well recognised)She knew straight away my dd was on the spectrum. She has aspergers syndrome. My dd is getting on great and the diagnosis has really opened doors. At last I'm being listened to. I brought my ds 5 to be assessed a couple of months ago and he was diagnosed with autism. That really upset me as he had gone through so many professionals who belittled me any time I mentioned he was hard work. I think I am still coming to terms with having two child with Asd but I'm hoping to do a certificate course in autism in sept. I wouldn't change them.

Invader the support you describe is exactly the support my dd2 needs. She is just coming to the end of Y3. The rest I her primary education is at risk of just sloping through our fingers. My dd2's impaired social functioning is so easy to miss. She certainly has subtle sensory issues (hyperacuisis, won't wear trousers because they are all itchy and uncomfortable on the waist) but they are mostly very manageable. I am just facing upto the notion of not getting a dx of ASD. I think it would be best for her but it is not up to me :-(

slipping not sloping

Handy, I am so with you, just a year behind. DD2 will go into year 2 in September and couldn't describe 'gardening' to DH

I know, Lougle, I will be VERY interested to see where your journey takes you. Very interested indeed.

Right now it's taking me to 'she's fine' from school and 'she's so not fine' from us

Don't know why I'm grinning really. I never appreciated how easily DD1's needs were appreciated. I am more and more convinced that SEN provision in this country follows a basic algorithm:

Is this child causing a problem to staff? YES = Support. NO = Nothing to see here, move along.

She saw her Paed for the first time 5 months ago. Sole outcome so far: 20 minute audiology appointment. He's meant to be following her up after 6 months - to what end?? I haven't got an appointment through yet, but if we do, we'll be saying 'errr...nothing has happened.'

Thanks everyone
That is helpful

Any news on SLT referral, Lougle? One of the problems is that dd2 comes across as 'super cute and naive, which adds to the cuteness, repeat to fade'. And mostly calm and polite in appts even though aged 8 she still never asks what the reason is for going to see the Paed SLT reports have been instrumtal. During Y3 however, school have certainly noticed difficulties (and set up IEP). But it is a bit like watching a car crash in slow motion, sadly.

No news. According the SLT department, I will only know that a SLT has seen DD2 if she comes home and tells me - fabulous when you think about it She can hold a (bizarre) conversation...what about the children who can't??

I did have a big conversation with the SENCO on the phone a couple of months ago and gave her a big wodge of info about DD2's issues. She hasn't said anything to me since.

I have parents evening at the end of the month and I've ticked the 'I'd like an appointment with the SENCO box.'

Frustratingly slow. Especially as with DD1 she was flagged and had full 1:1 support within a 2 week period (not that DD2 needs 1:1 support as such...just that DD1 was sorted out at lightening speed in comparison).

I hope your SLT does not ask your dd2 to 'put the big teddy on the small chair' or just have chat with her (and think 'oh how cute and what lovely expressive, clear language!) In fact she should take LfT!! Ha! Ridiculous they don't inform you of a date or consult you on the areas of difficulty. In any case I hope it happens before Paed. In fact have you considered asking them to go in by end of term as you are due Dev Paed review?

I fear exactly that, Handy. Lots of concrete tasks, picture cards of forks and cows, bunnies pushing cars, balls put into boxes and cups placed under tables. Clean bill of health. Job done.

When I was speaking to the senco she chased the salt by email as we were speaking and said I was right to be concerned. I've heard nothing since.

So much of this resonates with me and our Ds especially the phrase...

Is this child causing a problem to staff? YES = Support. NO = Nothing to see here, move along

This is exactly what we are fighting at school. Ds is so well behaved and blends into the background because he is a sweet little boy

We have had our OT appointment set for Monday. Its surprising what a paed can achieve when she wants to, will be interesting to see what S&lt say next month for his review.

If they do another 'in the box, on the box review' i will sob

From my experience I know this is true. DS1 was practically mute at school, didn't ask for help, was never disruptive but just blended into the background. He was not diagnosed/statemented until the beginning of year 6, failed transition and is now in an OOC indi ss.

DS2 on the other hand practises extreme passive resistance - he could give Ghandi a run for his money. Drives his teachers insane and so they request support. He does not follow instructions to the extent that the teachers wanted hearing impairment and possible epilepsy ruled out. So far, year 2, he has had multiple SALT assessments, OT assessment and EP assessment. The TA has been trained to deliver the SALT intervention and he is seen termly by the SALT therapist and the SALT specialist teacher and OT. However, the school do not have a clear idea how to intervene as a the lack of a 'proper' diagnosis (wooly reports) means that they do not understand how severe an impact or how persistent his difficulties are. He has narrative delay of half his chronological age and phonological but the staff are now going back to assuming that he would be ok if he were more confident etc.

I have a private SALT going into the school to see him next month - I'll let you know if she is able to bring some clarity to the situation. He is still on SA+ (has been since reception) and (surprise, surprise) the EP said he won't get a statement because the BAS assessment put him on the 98th percentile for verbal reasoning and the 99.3rd for non-verbal reasoning.

Can i ask those of you with older DC with SPD if at some point they are able to hold a 2 way conversation that isnt totally lead by the child.

DS is no where near yet but can quite happily talk about what he wants too then walks off if you change the path of the chat to something you want to talk about.