ASD and learning languages - any experiences?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

I'm not sure whether I'm nuts or not but I'm thinking of enrolling ds for some Spanish classes.

On the one hand it seems crazy to try this with a child with difficulties in their own language and communication.

On the other hand I wondered if it would give him a lot of information about his mother tongue by going through the 'academics' and rules of another language more formally and to revisit the 'purpose of communication'.

Certainly at the beginning, the language learning will be mostly concrete (parts of body, numbers, colours etc.) so I think he will enjoy it.

So, has anyone attempted this? How has it gone?

Is it a good idea, or probably best to forget it?

Just to be clear, I'm not asking whether it is even possible to get him to attend and participate. That's a whole other issue

My question is more about whether it would be worth making the effort to get him to.

Hi Star (serial NCer here)

DD with ASD, loves using the 'Lingo Show' games on the cbeebies website, they learn a few words like 'hello' and about flags and customs - she's just finished a topic on school (Y1) about Kenya and finds it all fascinating, it's raised a lot of questions about why we use certain words for certain items like 'but why is an apple called an apple not a car' sort of thing, and so far i've managed to muddle through with acceptable answers

she often uses other language words during the day, finds it fascinating, as well as fun if she uses one that others don't recognise , she has a talking globe which is one of her favourite 'toys'

for us it's helped with putting 'her' on the map, to broaden her personal horizons and help her understand that people have different ways of communication, without highlighting her own difficulties.

does that make sense?

Does he want to?

I have no idea. Haven't even discussed it . That's kind of how you handle ds. You have to insist on exposure to an experience and then talk about whether to continue, rather than ask in advance, as the answer will always be no. He hates new experiences.

But I'm taking dd and he'll be in tow. Since they can attend the same class I thought he may as well participate instead of waiting with me, as waiting me will also be a new experience that he'll initially hate of probably equal value.

Thanks Ripping, I think it is that kind of thing I hope to achieve. I'm not expecting him to ever become a fluent Spanish speaker, but more to broaden his experiences and social understanding I suppose.

A bit like learning a musical instrument. You might not ever be brilliant, but learning about music helps you understand and appreciate it more.

It's just when I mention it to family they are all a bit

yup, totally with you on the experience aspect

DDs school run spanish lessons as an after school club, i suggested it to her but she was not impressed, asked what the point would be. but she still plays the games and copies and understands Dora the Explorer

i don't tell my family anything anymore, had one too many from them i'm afraid

Star ds loves learning other languages, he has 'self taught' himself some Spanish! I wasn't even aware of this until he showed me a list he had written (and he hates writing!)

with the Spanish/English translations on for dreams, years, you, ok, music, amazing, go, thank you, jump, head, nice, 2, tree, run, sorry and what

When he visited his new school part of the curriculum is French and he was really interested in it and was disappointed that I interrupted this lesson to pick him up.

He has been doing some basics with his tutor and he is picking it up really quickly. He can say the usual hello, my name is, he knows cat and dog and numbers.

He does seem to have a knack for it and more importantly he is very keen to learn.

I think you should give it a go, see how he does. He may love it.

My youngest is really great at languages. He doesn't often choose to speak at all but for some reason, his brain doesn't seem to differentiate between languages. A word is a word is a word. He knows some words of spanish, french, german, kiswahili, japanese and manderin so far It's all just words to him. He can also mimic speech patterns. So he'll be talking gibberish or just making umumum sounds but the tone and pattern is clearly japanese or french etc.

He also sees maths and music as languages and is really great there too. works out complex sums in his head, hums tunes from reading the music and plays the trombone, saxaphone, claranet and piano.

And yet he goes days without talking to you with communicative intent and can't go outside without 1:1 support and they have to give him 2:1 offside in school, and he's bashed 2 TAs already this year and only yesterday he threw himself to the floor and was screaming and crying so much that he's actually burst blood vessels in his face

He is unfathomable. He is 12 and I am ashamed to say I really don't feel like I understand him at all.

My eldest is doing german and is reasonably ok. He isn't very interested though. His favourite language is computers and he writes his own games. He made a fruit bouncing one and a get a ball through a maze one

offsite, not offside

Thanks everyone. I just hope his teacher is up to teaching him (and his sister for that matter).

Claw DS seems to have a really good 'ear' which is another reason I thought he'd like it. He has done amazingly well with piano lessons. His stimming has reduced dramatically and it's a big de-stress thing that he does just before school and after school. Do you think your ds could benefit from lessons?

Hec It sounds like a lot of fun in your house!!

It's insane in this house, that's what it is!

Funniest thing is that if you ask him what X is in Y language, he'll give his stock reply to any question you ask him, which is "I dunno"

And then he'll twirl round the room singing it!

His piano teacher never did understand how he learned and your son may well be the same. She used to say that he never paid a bit of attention to her and then he'd wander over and play and it was like he learned through osmosis

I bet your son would love it. If he's anything like mine though, the second you appear to want him to do it, he'll be as resistant as hell. I've learned to not appear to give a crap.

Strangely enough Star that is something I have been thinking about for some time and I actually looked into it. There seems to be a shortage in this area of piano teachers. Then we had all the drama in October, when ds couldn't even leave the house, so everything came to a full stop. But he is in a much better place right now.

We have tried all the usually martial arts, boy scouts, swimming etc, none of which he has liked. He seems to prefer arts and craft things (not the messy sort) but drawing and making bracelets etc and im sure he would love music too.

New school offers music lessons and I will def be finding out about these.

echolalia and the 'perfect pitch' that comes along with sensory processing issues?

you mean like that, Polter?

Yes, he was exclusively echolalic for many years, I suppose this could be an extension of that.

His music teachers also say he has perfect pitch.

Interesting, isn't it?

DS2 has really enjoyed learning Welsh in school and is quite good at it, I think because he mimics the accent, just like a lot of his 'Tv' echolalia is in an American accent.

That would be the best way of doing it I imagine Claw, through school. The teacher will have had exposure to children with additional needs and not be frightened off (ds really does seem to be talented yet we couldn't find a teacher that would be willing to teach him until he attended this school).

Also, it is a part of the school day and not an extra burden on you and your relationship to have to get him to lessons.

I do have to say though I have NEVER asked ds to practice. It's just what he does. Though like Hec's ds if you ask for a performance you get a random set of notes as if he's never played thing thing in his life. it is better to enjoy it whilst pretending you are deaf.

A bit of demand avoidance.

I don't know whether ds has perfect pitch. If I were to ask him to sing a note and then test it out he'd throw a tantrum if he had got it wrong.

Hec DS' piano teacher keeps writing things in his communication book like 'I am stunned at his progress this week' and 'perhaps we have a genius'.

I take it with a pinch of salt because his piano teacher is a bit overdramatic anyway and secondly genius is 4yr olds playing concertos on youtube. DS definitely isn't doing that.

give him time.

What's demand avoidance? Is it an actual thing or a turn of phrase? I've heard it mentioned a lot. My youngest in particular would hold his breath till he passed out if you tried to force him to breathe, iyswim. I've just always thought he is a stubborn little bugger

Yes. It's wanting to keep absolute control over everything that you do. If someone else suggests it and it wasn't your own idea, be prepared for a consequence. Even if it WAS your idea but someone else said it before you did it, or even congratulated you for doing it (therefore it being THEIR agenda too), be prepared to face the consequence.

A bit like being stubborn, and often like cutting your nose of to spite your face.

But ultimately I think it is to do with the needing control over your own environment thing that goes with a dx of ASD.

i see demand avoidance as a real thing, Hec

DD uses the 'of course i can, i'm the best ever' line to take the pressure off when someone makes a 'demand' of her - thus trying to convince us she doesn't need to try, as she's already the best

this is often mis-read as confidence

If I say 'DS put your shoes on we're going out'

I'll get shouted at 'No, I won't. I'm not going out!'

If I insist it gets worse, but if I shrug and say 'okay then, you stay here and I'll go on my own' he'll put his shoes on. However if I say 'well done' he'll immediately remove them and throw them in the road. If he catches me even looking at his feet it might cause a scene.

It's not as bad as it used to be because we've done some work on it though.