Appropriate sanction for biting at school?

[wibbleweed]

DS2 is in year 1 (mainstream with statement) and has AS. He struggles massively with his behaviour at school and frequently lashes out at others, biting and hitting. This is often because someone got in his way or did something to upset him (e.g. broke lego) but sometimes it seems to be that he gets frustrated and lunges for the nearest (random) person. This has been getting worse at school this term (incidents at least 3 days a week) and yesterday he was building a tower that collapsed so ran across the room to bite a random child (drew blood) plus the teacher plus a parent helper...

School spoke to me yesterday about need to impose sanctions for this behaviour at school when he gets home (e.g. not letting him go on the Wii) but I just don't think this is appropriate as a) I think school and home should be separate and b) a sanction carried out at home 5 or so hours later is not going to mean anything to him. I was called in by the head of KS1 this morning, and have explained this to them, but they are truly stuck as to what to do, so I said I'd do some research as to what is appropriate and what 'works'.

DS2 doesn't want to be like this. He knows it's wrong, just can't manage his anger in the heat of the moment. As he touchingly said to me last night, "my brain's got too much of the good powers and not enough of the bad powers". So I'd really welcome suggestions for how we can manage this - and what the school should be doing.

Apologies for going on!
Thanks WW x

'School spoke to me yesterday about need to impose sanctions for this behaviour at school when he gets home'

Absolutely bonkers suggestion. You cannot be expected to give a 'sanction' for a behaviour that occurred at school, when you were not there, hours and hours after the event, for a 6 year old with autism.

What planet are they on?

How much support does he get at school. The very best intervention would be a combination of preventative plus positive reinforcement.

Ask the school to fill out an ABC chart for a week, then you can meet up and see what the triggers were for the behaviours and what the school did immediately after the behaviour and the effect of that. You can then look for patterns emerging 'i.e. whenever he tries to build a tower there follows an 'incident', but only if it is in the afternoon when he is tired'.

You can then put some intervention in place, such as building a tower with 1:1 supervision, teaching the appropriate response to it falling down, practice it and reward the correct behaviours.

You can also 'prevent' by perhaps telling him that towers are not allowed in the afternoon, or by an adult stepping in just before tower fall-out and rewarding him for good behaviour a split second before he takes out his frustration, thereby changing the direction of his actions.

What is the provision in his statement?

No way! We tried this with ds2 (not for biting but other equally bad behaviour) and all it did was escalate the violent behaviour at home and make him even more miserable than he was already. We keep behaviour at school and home separate now although keep each other informed so that we all know when he is stressed and likely to kick off. As Starlight said the school needs to put more action into preventing the incidents - do the biting incidents occur at a similar time each day are there any visible signs your son is getting stressed before the biting incidents happen so he can be removed or distracted from the situation.
A home-school behaviour book has helped at times with ds1 but only when it was done very positively so might be worth exploring this option.

Thanks Starlight and OneinEight - that's very helpful. I wonder if there'a an 'official' bit of advice (or useful book) I can wave in front of them along the lines that these things just aren't appropriate?

I know CAMHS suggested ABC charts - and I'll suggest again. Maybe if I start doing them at home and bringing them into school so we can all talk about it in an 'analytical' sort of way? He has all sorts of positive reward schemes (both at school and at home) which I think really help, but this is generally used to reinforce good behaviour regarding non-compliance (another of his issues!) rather than managing his lashing out.

Yes, there are sometimes times/places that clearly stress him out (e.g. lunch hall) and when he plays in the sandpit at school i just know there'll be an incident because another child is bound to break his sandcastle (accidentally or not). I just wonder if he should be kept away from this sort of situation entirely but school are keen on the 'inclusion' side of things. Sometimes, though, the lashing out is unprecedented - something goes wrong (e.g. he trips over) and that's that!

BTW he has 17.5 hours 1 to 1 on statement, but in reality has a TA near him much of the rest of the time

WW x

Do you feel this placement is working? I'm quite horrified that a child, any child, is biting or hitting 3 times per week. There are 29 other children who know they will go to school and have a good chance of getting bitten or hit.

I say this as a parent of a child with SN, btw, so I'm not gatecrashing the topic.

I think you need to be thinking of a co-ordinated plan.

I also don't think it's a bad thing to mix home and school as long as it's a structured thing. For instance, at DD1's school, a method we tried was that DD1 had to bring a photo of me to school, which was either happy or sad, depending on whether she had hurt her teachers. This massively reduced her behaviours because she knew I'd be telling her teachers.

If you want to throw it back at them. You could suggest that they send you an email of the incident (in order to make sure you 'punish' ds appropriately) plus information about what his TA was doing at the time.

You can tell them that this will help provide evidence for any more support he might need, or additional training/extra hours for the TA when it comes to either an annual review or if you need to call an emergency one.

They won't like it, but they'll sure as hell leave you alone, especially if you put this request in writing.

At the same time though, Star, we are talking about a little boy who is so distressed at school that he is regularly biting and 29 other children who are going to school regularly being bitten.

This surely isn't about wibbleweed being 'left alone' - there is a serious problem that needs sorting out.

They need to deal appropriately with his behaviour, there and then - and to get better at reading him so they can head off any outbursts like this and re-direct his anger - maybe to a beanbag or cushion. He's acknowledging that he has a problem with being angry and lashing out, which is a good thing and means that they have no excuse for deferring consequences and punishments to you. Punishing him after school isn't going to stop the biting or lashing out (and, may add to it if the chance to de-stress after school is taken away). They need to work with him to manage it. Something like the Amazing 5 point scale may help.

I agree that it needs sorting out Lougle, but their chosen method is to blame the parents, request the parent sorts it out.

They should be looking at their internal systems of support, calling an emergency annual review, requesting additional hours from someone better qualified, dealing with other parental complaints swiftly and with assurance that this child will be properly supervised and supported.

A don't believe that the parents can't support the work of the school in behavioural strategies, and I do feel concern for the other children in the class, but it is a SCHOOL issue and should be dealt with there.

If the parent engages, defends, accepts the stupid 'outreach' model of support which is never going to work, then it delays the school getting adequate interventions in place.

True, but education is also a partnership. If the DS can recall the incident, then he can be shown that it wasn't acceptable and needs to be shown that. I do think that it's appropriate for some action to take place at home - not necessarily a harsh sanction, but perhaps better to offer a reward for no incidents at school, which is quietly withdrawn if there is an incident.

I feel there is a general trend towards saying 'but he/she has SN' with a great big full stop at the end. If we aren't accepting low standards for education, why are we accepting them for behaviour? It's just as important that our children can behave in a manner that allows them to be part of a group as it is that they can be academically able.

I don't think anyone should be accepting low standards for behaviour, but the child has to make the choice between socially acceptable behaviour or not, in a school setting whilst experiencing emotions they possibly can't understand. the behaviour won't change because several activities later (and quite possibly further stressful scenarios later) they are punished for the behaviour when in a different mood and setting.

It is about focussing on what will be effective rather than whose responsibility it is.

Does your ds bite and lash out outside of the school setting when he gets angry/frustated?

If so how do you deal with it?

If he did, but what you have done stopped this behaviour, how did you do it?

Maybe you can provide some pointers for school?

Agree with Polter. I am assuming your son knows it is wrong to bite and he is doing it because he is stressed. Adding a punishment at home into the mix just increases the stress levels and you end up in a vicious circle. What you and school need to work on is how to reduce those stress levels - easier said than done I know - we still are working on it for ds2 but home-life has certainly improved since we stopped punishing for things happening at school.

Thanks everyone, that's all really helpful. It's a really difficult situation and I can see both sides.

Starlight - School have generally been very supportive, but the good SENCO has just gone on maternity leave, which has coincided with an escalation in incidents. We've recently had our annual review and managed to get the hours increased on the statement, but DS is achieving above average academically so apparantly it's difficult to justify much more support (though presumably if he's a danger to others we could argue for more??)

Lougle - I take your point and of course school has a duty of care to the other 29 children in the class (plus countless others in the playground, corridors etc). I don't like the idea of punishments from school coming home, but I sent him to school today with a card in his bag, showing what he will get if he has a 'good wednesday' (ice lolly plus his toy Yoshi will come and meet him from school), so I'm trying to incentivise good behaviour at school. But he doesn't seem able to control it - that's the problem...

Claw - his aggressive behaviour is generally less of a problem at home as we're more able to anticipate it and tend to avoid stressful places (e.g. playgrounds) when out and about. If I feel him starting to 'stress' I hold him by both hands so he can't swipe at anyone (though this is going to be more challenging when he's 15...). He does lash out at his older brother, but this is invariably because he's been provoked (e.g. had his picture scribbled on). I always say in my 'stern' voice that we 'don't hit/bite/whatever' but I'm a bit at a loss what else I can do?

I've got to the point where I dread pick up at school :(

Well done on incentivising good behaviour - that's most likely going to be more effective than punishing the undesirable behaviour. If he can't control it, you will have to adjust things, but at least you will be able to show school that you've tried.

Maybe as Star suggested then school need to anticipate it better and avoid stressful situations, by identifying the triggers?

Maybe school can offer some incentives and motivators too for good behaviour ie stressful situation, you did x as taught to you, instead of bite/hit, earns you x?

Maybe an object that he can bite, instead of biting child when angry, you bite chew toy and get a reward for getting it 'right'?

We had this. I referred them back to her nursery for advice "because she never did it there"

Ds is not an anxious child at all. He does have issues about rigidity and getting things wrong and sharing. For me this is about increasing tolerance to things which are not perfectly the way he wants them and being more flexible. Best done 1:1 with adult eg deliberate messing up game, knocking down tower, butting into game etc and rewarding your child for staying calm. So with ds would get him sitting nicely, hands on knees and lots of rewards (has a token system where earns points towards a reward like computer time) for sitting well. Then start interfering with his rituals and rewarding if not react. It may even need 2 people eg one to mess with the tower and the other to prompt his hands back down. Even if you physically have to prompt him still reward him for staying sitting with still hands etc. label what you want to see eg how calm, still, nice sitting etc. try not to say 'no biting' etc as my ds will often process 'biting' and not the no'. So you could even say 'still mouth' or teeth. You want to be very clear what you want to see and reward it. Expect to have to work on this for a while and have a hierarchy so start with something he won't mind you fussing with too much before working up to the things he really hates to go wrong / share. We have not had to use punishments at all. All been done by earning tokens for good behaviour we want to see. Ds can lose points for negative behaviour but he immediately gets chance to start token board again and put things right. For ds this is more appropriate than a sanction hours later. For a child who hates getting things wrong then reminding him hours later what he did wrong is probably just going to aggravate things. We have ABA who set up behaviour plan along these lines. Schools are out of depth on asd behaviours. Ideally you want someone with training eg from LA behaviour team or autism team but not all LAs have anyone. You want a system of positive reinforcement and the staff trained how to implement this. But you need to start 1:1 with adults away from the classroom then generalise it to the more stressful environment. If ds was aggressive at school which is very rare then his ABA staff would put him somewhere safe and very boring and make very simple demands eg clap your hands to build up compliance again. Once he starts earning points again he comes out of it and we just wait him out even if it takes 20 mins. Staff at school can straight away start giving l

Ds is not an anxious child at all. He does have issues about rigidity and getting things wrong and sharing. For me this is about increasing tolerance to things which are not perfectly the way he wants them and being more flexible. Best done 1:1 with adult eg deliberate messing up game, knocking down tower, butting into game etc and rewarding your child for staying calm. So with ds would get him sitting nicely, hands on knees and lots of rewards (has a token system where earns points towards a reward like computer time) for sitting well. Then start interfering with his rituals and rewarding if not react. It may even need 2 people eg one to mess with the tower and the other to prompt his hands back down. Even if you physically have to prompt him still reward him for staying sitting with still hands etc. label what you want to see eg how calm, still, nice sitting etc. try not to say 'no biting' etc as my ds will often process 'biting' and not the no'. So you could even say 'still mouth' or teeth. You want to be very clear what you want to see and reward it. Expect to have to work on this for a while and have a hierarchy so start with something he won't mind you fussing with too much before working up to the things he really hates to go wrong / share. We have not had to use punishments at all. All been done by earning tokens for good behaviour we want to see. Ds can lose points for negative behaviour but he immediately gets chance to start token board again and put things right. For ds this is more appropriate than a sanction hours later. For a child who hates getting things wrong then reminding him hours later what he did wrong is probably just going to aggravate things. We have ABA who set up behaviour plan along these lines. Schools are out of depth on asd behaviours. Ideally you want someone with training eg from LA behaviour team or autism team but not all LAs have anyone. You want a system of positive reinforcement and the staff trained how to implement this. But you need to start 1:1 with adults away from the classroom then generalise it to the more stressful environment. If ds was aggressive at school which is very rare then his ABA staff would put him somewhere safe and very boring and make very simple demands eg clap your hands to build up compliance again. Once he starts earning points again he comes out of it and we just wait him out even if it takes 20 mins. Staff at school can straight away start giving praise / tokens etc for being good. You need to drum into them they need to catch every time he is being good, go overboard about it and reward it. Teachers often don't have time to do this and only make time for the child when it kicks off. Catching the good is far more effective than punishing the bad at changing behaviour.

***phone!