Anyone clued up on ECHR..particularly Atricle 5

[hoxtonbabe]

Hi All,

I will try to keep this short and sweet.

My DS school have started up their crap again with trying to detain him for getting a low mark on a test. The school are insisting it is not a detention, but when I say then do not issue these "sessions/detentions" after school, they say its policy..I look at policy, policy says nowt about keeping after school for low mark, failure to do homework yes, bad behavior yes, but not getting mark teacher wanted/expected in test..no

I just spoke with the police on the non emergency line whom oddly enough also had a son with SN so she was appalled when I told her what was going on and said this would be an unlawful detention if as I state it is not for reasons as per the school policy.

I was reading the below, granted it is 10years old, so was wondering if anyone had a bit more up to date info, or if still stood.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3305304/Ban-on-school-detention-amid-human-rights-fear.html

I have gone as far as governors on this issue and the school (in governors) still refuse to stop this nonsense. I was going to copy in Ofsted, but not sure as they do not deal with individual cases, although this unlawful detention gets issued to the boys all the time and not just my son

A quick google brought up this page on the government's website

discipline

Which is ambiguous for you as the page says 'Schools can punish pupils if they behave badly.' but your child hasn't misbehaved.

Rosie..exactly! This is where it starts to become a bit more of a civil matter as they are detaining him for reasons that are not deemed lawful such as behavior/failure to produce work/following rules or instructions by the teacher.

Naturally schools would not "detain" a child for any other reason other than behavior or what I stated above so even the Dept for Education are baffled on this one, especially when I explain that he has a statement.

Anything else after school should then be optional...which the school are refusing to accept.

No knowledge to share, just a sense of anger at this injustice. How ridiculous. Esp on top of everything else.

HONK HONK HONK

I'm not a lawyer so not sure about this, but if he's got a Statement, then are the school possibly discriminating against a disabled child according to the Special Educational Needs and Disability Act 2001?

The Act is here, and this part looks interesting Schools

Thanks Handy...it really is crazy, so as it stands, school refuse to implement provision, LEA refuse to provide provision, provision school are directly responsible supposed to provide they still do not do, school detain/attempt to detain after school for not understanding work which are 2 separate issues alone...how this is happening to my son and no one can see this as a issue is beyond my comprehension.

I have just put in a DDA against the school for other reasons, but there are certain elements of this also that the DDA will cover..Im so tired of all this

The Equality Act now covers disability discrimination - useful guidance can be found here This is certainly an area to look at.

There is potentially an A5 argument but it is a question of degree and the ECHR distinguishes between deprivation of liberty and restrictions on liberty so it would have to be significant and serious to constitute a deprivation of liberty see here

Education Act 2011 introduced no notice detentions.

I think disability discrimination and breach of school disciplinary policy would be your best avenue of challenge. Speak to a lawyer for some free advice - links on my blog.

Hi IA..I knew you would show up :-) Hope the blog is coming along nicely (will go look in a min)

Who do I go to regarding the school breach in school policy as the governors are also refusing to acknowledge what the school are doing is in breach/unlawful.

They can introduce all the no notice detentions they like but the reasons for telling DS to stay behind does not fall under any policy of the school and they are more than 20mins (usually 40mins to an hour) without actually fully laying it out in writing, although they put enough for me to work out and for them to not be able to deny but it is not in any way formally set out..say I was away and my friend was watching the kids, she would have no idea what the codes are?!?

When's his annual review? Put it in his statement that he must go home on time.

I know they aren't putting in the other provision but this one is free so they might.

LOL @ starlight, I might try that one.

however the point the school are missing or just being difficult as they are bored is the school (well governor) have said "it is not a detention" therefore when I say no he is not allowed to stay behind after school then why do I then have to get into this debate/dialogue with them every other month...if it is not a detention, then you have no right to keep him after school...END OF

They don't actually say it is a detention anymore (after I threaten them with a DDA last year) , so now they say it is "support" this is what happens;

ME: ok so I reject your "support" after school..the support YOUR Governor said was an "offer"

HEAD: err, no you cant do that,

ME: why as there is nowt in school policy that actually states you can do this for the reasons you state and I am excising my basic parental and human right of being able to pick and choose what I choose to accept or reject for my son

HEAD: hmmm..No, cant do that...its what we do...

ME: so if DS doesn't show up?

HEAD: Errr, we then issue a detention for failure to attend

ME: so it is compulsory which then equates a detention..

HEAD: errm, I am not going to get into that, its just what we do...

this is basically what i go through every other month

they are constantly contradicting themselves its ass if they don't actually read their own policy. I have to chase the barrister tomorrow, I was trying to avoid shelling out £140 p/h that I am using out of DS saved DLA money but I need some sound, solid legal advice on this one and Legal Aid lot are having none of this..bloody bas**rds, the lot of em (school and LA)

They sound a nightmare! I totally understand your point about shelling out more money when it should be going towards your child, but a short sharp legal letter might just stop their stupidity!

Either arrange an adult to collect him EVERY DAY at the correct time, OR sort out a new school for September.

No matter what the law says, you can't fix stupid, BUT you can break yourself trying.

A child that is consistently punished for failing to understand is one that's at risk of going on a downward spiral self-esteem wise. This is emotional damage that can stay with an individual right into adult hood. If we don't protect our children's mental health who will?

The alternative is to sit your child down and point out that school can only make them miserable for the hours they attend. e.g. Once schools out that's the torture done for the day & it's time to kick back and enjoy life. Not everyone can adopt this mindset SN's or no, and it isn't a permanent solution - just one that might minimise the damage I mentioned above in the short term while you figure out a solution.

BOCHEAD: this was a major point I was trying to get across at my hearing last year (2,3 and 4) this issue of the detention (or masked detention) made no bloomin difference to them and they still told him to stay where he is despite them detaining him all because the SENCO said "its not detention" and when I tried to read the letter the head sent (basically saying it was at that time) they said I could not read from it, yet allowed the LA to read from non submitted papers.

He is in Y10, and I have my little one I need to collect from school so I cant get him, and there isn't anyone else that could do it..by the time i get him "moved" even if it were possible he would be more or less gone anyway, so kind of stuck with the idiots for now until I get my advice from barrister later in the week (hopefully) on how to deal with this..

I really need something sweet and sticky to cheer me up, I could murder a pavlova right now