<Sign> Can someone cast their eye over DS & tell me what to do next? Dyslexia/ADHD inattentive...??

[oohaveabanana]

DS's Y4 assessments have just come back and his literacy level is a 2a. He was assessed (probably wrongly, to be fair) as a 3 at the end of Y3, so effectively has made no progress in 2 years of school.

He moved schools last term, and across the two schools we are being told that his issues are not severe enough for any additional help/SENCO did not feel there was an issue (SENCO did an online dyslexia test and said he definitely didn't have it....although she'd never seen anyone take so long to do the test!) . He is an average-ly bright boy - levels in reading & maths are fine I think, but writing has always been an issue. Very poor handwriting, struggles to remember basic stuff like capital letters & finger spaces, still some occasional letter reversal (d/b, capital J). He's also a total dreamer - finds staying on task (esp with writing) well-nigh impossible, always drifting off into a world of his own....

We have him booked in for an Ed Psych evaluation (private) on Wednesday - to look at both dyslexia and ADHD inattentive, but I feel like we need to be pushing more at school, and am really not sure where to start, or what we could ask for.
I had a meeting last term with his teacher, who felt he just needed to work on his handwriting, but we have been doing 20 minutes a day for about 2 terms now (5 before school, 15 after) and whilst he is a bit better, I just can't see how he's going to catch up. She didn't feel there was anything else they could be doing in school (he missed the handwriting lessons at the beginning of the year, given changing schools)

Help me, MN....

Have you looked at dyspraxia also?

My lad is also 2a at the end of year 4 - however I'm clear as to what's causing his delay and what needs to happen to enable him to reach his potential. My only barrier now is negotiating the systemic roadblocks to making it happen. (DS has a statement and an OT programme he's supposed to have followed this year at school as prescribed - it hasn't happened. Statements are not always the fix all we hope they'll be).

Options for you with only 2 years left till secondary looming

1. Behavioral optometrist/ tinsley house/OT programme to be followed at HOME so that you know it's being done properly.
2. Supplement school with "write from the start" a developmental handwriting programme + mimio headsprout at home.
3. Homeschool totally? (there is one UK online school for primary aged kids you could also use)
4. Apply for a statement knowing that even if approved 1st time round it'll be year 6 before your child sees any real benefits in practice? IPSEA website has model letters.

I may sound cynical but my gut feels that if a primary has let it get to the start of year 5 without doing anything concrete to help a child catch up, then without a rocket somewhere rude they'll let that child drift until he/she becomes "someone else's problem" in year 7 at secondary. I personally feel secondary is too late for many.

imho it's time to get radical in your approach and if you have the funds to pay for private assessments (OT & dyspraxia/sensory issue identification would be my first port of call).

If his hand Writing is that much if a struggle (whether its dyspraxia or dyslexia) you need to start think about getting him working on a laptop.... He need to learn to touch type so that he can start producing his work at school this way.... Once he has learnt to type, the only nice handwriting he needs is to be able to sign his name.....

Just beware also that, while an Ed psyche can diagnose dyslexia, they can't diagnose dyspraxia (poor handwriting an reversal if letters all fit dyspraxia) ..... Also I was told that a standard Ed psyche test will not pick up all forms of dyslexia... So if ed psyche doesn't have the answers , keep on looking

I disagree re the typing. I've thought long and hard about this and decided that I'll fund a touch typing course in the summer term of year 6 and not before.

My reasons:-

1. Actually the ability to write a shopping list/hand write a form/jot down a telephone message ARE pretty critical to "normal" adult functioning.

1. I'm a fervent supporter of assistive technologies(used to be my job!) BUT I've yet to see how you cope as an adult if your "kit" (be that a smartphone, tablet etc) breaks down/runs ou of power etc in an emergency. The ability to use paper & a pencil can be a godsend we take for granted!

1. Dyspraxia & similar motor issues can make typing just as hard as handwriting for many people. Many with visual tracking issues have issues seeing words on a screen just as they do on paper. Where there is a physical cause for slow handwriting, it's likely that will create a slow typist too in many cases.

1. Typing just isn't the magic "cure all" for those adults I worked with who needed speech to text software packages instead. If you can avoid being THAT dependent on having to rely on school/exam centres/work places all using compatible systems throughout life I'd give it your best shot.

I suppose i just don't see typing as this instant magic bullet that many schools etc do & feel that while in PRIMARY education every possible effort should be made to give as many children as possible the basic scaffolding of the 3R's. This should be the key principle unless there really is NO alternative. I do think my lad will be sitting his GCSE's on a laptop rather than handwriting his exams but I fully intend that he'll at least be able to write the phone number of that pretty girl he meets at the bus stop on the way home on the back of his hand .

Hi op.
Check out the tinsley house support thread.

My ds2's primary teachers discouraged typing (despite the OT recommending it) as they wanted him to learn to improve his handwriting.

However he was unable to produce more than a couple of paragraphs within the lesson, so he didn't have the opportunity to develop his syntax and this has been quite a disadvantage for him. His reading and spelling ability have been assessed as being well above average, but his writing style is immature.

He now uses a word processor for longer pieces of writing in his secondary school and is still struggling to get to grips with some of the basics, such as when to start a new paragraph, as he just didn't get the opportunity to practice these skills in primary school.
He'll get there though.

Thanks everyone - sorry was working yesterday and didn't see this.

In response to some of your points:

Cornypedicure: dyspraxia has been mentioned, but not something I've looked into in detail - will do some googling

Bochead: I've been bringing up the issue across 3 schools - and have systematically been told he's 'not got issues that are severe enough to merit additional help/statementing'. I've got an ed psych tomorrow (at a dyselxia centre, so hopefully reasonably clued up) so am going to see results of that, & then go in and meet school again . I guess the levels just helped me see that actually, the 'not severe enough' line is simply not good enough. On your options:

1. Will look into Tinsely house
2. Already doing Write from the start (although school wanted us to focus on 'classic' handwriting practice instead - thoughts?) Will look at mimio headsprout - not heard of that one
3. Homeschool totally?
4. Can I apply for a statement without schools' 'approval' - does his delay sound sever enough that we should be thinking about that?

RE: laptop issue: His school are very IT focused, but to date I've taken the approach that focusing on his handwriting AND teaching him to touch type felt like too much - so we stuck with handwriting. The do learn touchtyping in school, though, & I think if I pushed it, school would accept him doing more on PC - but without a statement by concern was that his handwriting might still be an ongoing issue...

Cornypedicure - the situation you descrieb is exactly where we are - ds has a fab vocab & his spelling is OK (he is a voracious reader) - but all his focus goes on getting words on a page, so his abilities are never caputured on paper....

Am feeling bad that I haven't pushed this more earlier - I have tried, but maybe foolishly, listened to the reassurances from school...

Apply for that statement - the IPSEA website has fabby model letters to help you make that first scary step. You do NOT need anyone's permission to apply for a statement.

In order to access the curriculum your child needs access to technology (laptop to type on) and OT (to help him both type, write and pay attention) on a regular basis. He may also need some remedial teaching to help him catch up with his peers?

Neither of these items are bog standard & his secondary school will need to be aware that these will be basic requirements for him to access the curriculum. There is probably additional help he needs re the add but I know nought about that condition as it's not on my own child's diagnostic list.

Write from the start is an internationally recognised developmentally appropriate programme that is widely recommended by both education and occupational therapy experts. It's also available on amazon for about £25. It took us 18 months of 10-20 mins a day first time round to complete it, and yes it helped a lot! (DS has gone from p levels to level 2 for his writing as a result). We then took a 9 month break from it to work on RRT/midline stuff and now we are about to embark on it again for approx 3 months to consolidate.

DS will NEVER be able to write with the ease his peers do, but he can at least write a bit iykwim. For me it's about trying to help DS meet his full potential, to whatever level it's possible for him to attain.

Thanks Bochead, will take a look at IPSEA. Oh, it just feels like a mountain to climb

I maybe wasn't clear, but we had been doing Write from the start - bought the books about a year ago probably, and over 9 months we got to about half way through the second one. But tbh, I wasn't seeing any improvment - but maybe we weren't doing them right - I just sort of left ds to do the exercises, having given him a basic brief - maybe I needed to be doing more...

The weird thing is, both of his schools generally have a good rep for SENCO support - ds's two best mates are ADHD and severe dyslexic (one with statement, one without), and both are being given lots of extra support ... which is partly why I trusted the schools to be getting it right, iykwim.

www.stokehilljunior.devon.sch.uk/downloads/National_Curriculum_Point_Scales.pdf

Check this out. I was told the same thing when DS1 was in year 5 by the LA EP and at the beginning of year 6 the new SENCO said DS1 was definitely not dyslexic. He is now funded to attend Frewen College for the rest of year 7 and future years. He also has HF ASD, APD, SPD etc.

At the start of the process we had no diagnoses and 'all' we had was 'lack of academic progress'. wrt SpLD it is usual to be fobbed off with attainment levels (ie 'need' to be 1b at end of year 6) and conveniently ignore progress. Don't let them get away with it. DH now is on the BOG of our primary where apparently DS1's progress was OK - this was consistently reported despite the fact that it was known to be false as pupil progress is measured on a termly basis (1 NCP) and so his stagnation had been a cause for concern for years and has 'messed up' the ofsted reported statistics for the 2012 KS2 cohort.

Thanks KeepOn - good to know I'm not the only one who's been fobbed off ... So, if I'm reading the tables correctly, 2a would be expected standard for end of Y3, so he's about a year behind - have I got that right?

His maths is pretty much dead on target, and his reading is already 4c, so it's just the blardy writing that's the issue....

Out of interest, how did you manage to make such a shift in provision so quickly...? Any handy hints & tips??

Oohavea I actually came on this board to get advice about this...

We are having a meeting tomorrow about our ds and his lack of progress/engagement - we moved school last winter, ds is now 9 (P4 in Scotland) - I am really worried that his dx (hfa) has made the school less proactive about ds reaching his academic potential.

Since his last school knew him and supported him well, he was top group for reading and he was able to write reasonably well with support, and prompting from his 1-1 support.

7 months on his writing is really bad, he is not engaged and I am really concerned about his lack of progress and regression. I went to school for an open afternoon, ds is in a far corner of the classroom at a desk on his own, back to the class and door, with a bookcase between him and the whiteboard which is on the wall he is facing, slightly to the right of ds - how can he see it?

Ds knows the names of one or two of his classmates, and the teacher keeps telling me that he is " not participating" in class activities. I feel that my bright son has been labelled and left to get on with it, I just don't know what to say to the school tomorrow - ht and additional support needs teacher will be there.

I just don't know who to ask for advice and support. School is important socially for ds IMHO, or it should be. I need to go out but I just wanted to share, I suppose one thing is for sure, we are not alone in experiencing this for our dc!

Good luck for tomorrow,Tapsel - let me know how you get on.
Ds moved schools in Jan, but we've been lucky as most of his friends from infant school went to the school, & he's landed in a class with all of them, so social integration at least has been easy.

As you can see, I'm probably not the best person to give advice yet! But I guess you could start by asking why the provision is so different at this school, given the good progress he'd been making at the previous one? What was the reason for your change of schools? The seating arrangements certainly sound bonkers!

have a look at emmerson house - based in hammersmith, onion.
They do specialist touch typing courses, and specialise with helping children with dyslexia, dyspraxia and dyscalcula.....it is not only about speed of being able to write something (compared with handwriting a peice of work) it can also act as an organisational tool, helping them get there ideas onto paper and then organise them by copying and pasting....they can go back and add in.....

London! Bloody auto correct - how did it get onion out of that!....

Lol at onion, I do like a good autocorrect error, they make me smile.

We had a meeting, a report appeared we hadn't seen before, got to read it after the meeting - one of those very good reports but also quite heartbreaking seeing stuff on paper. It will be extremely useful though.

I hope your private ed psych appointment helps oohavea. Your comment about getting the right support for your ds being a mountain to climb is so true!

I always feel that meetings with the school seem positive, they are great in theory, I think because my ds has hfa they expect him to cope and don't really understand the complexity of the issues, but the report we got was very good/useful and may change their attitude, I hope. An outside agency coming into observe children with additional support needs should be the norm - the experience and knowledge of people like Autism Outreach is amazing compared to what the school know/observe. Sorry bit of an off topic ramble.

I would jump at the chance of touch typing lessons. I'm trying to get my 13 year old DS to do them at home and it's a battle. It would have been amazing if Junior School had given him the opportunity. He left KS2 with a 3 in Writing but is now on track thanks to the laptop that he uses. Still has lots of issues with spelling and paragraphing etc. Realistically, his handwriting is not going to drastically improve so I feel that the laptop is the way forward - he uses it for long writing assignments and will use it for tests and exams. He goes to handwriting classes at school and inevitably does have to write sometimes but the laptop will be the key to help him reach his potential.

School may not do much unless your DS is a certain amount (2 years) behind average.

oohavebanana sorry haven't read all posts so may be stating the obvious, but why did u go down private EP assessment? I think if you still have concerns regarding either academic progress or developmental/behaviours, go via your GP and ask for a devt paed to assess your son. You can do this anyway in conjunction with whatever the school are doing or not doing by the sounds of it. He doesn't sound too far behind with regard to his levels, but you obviously have worries about 'other' stuff. Could be dyslexia, dyspraxia, auditory processing......

Boc I read your opinion of why writing is important, and I could not agree more... HOWEVER...

My family is a perfect example of both ends of the scale. DS's writing is laboriously slow, but he can type at quite the speed now (he has had a computer at school since Y7 after the assessment in Y6 showed the quality of his written work improved exponentially when the "written" portion was taken out of the equation. With that said, he still writes (poorly and barely legibly, but he does) at school for some subjects - Maths particularly. He is in an "enriched" (G&T) stream in Y9 and would not be able to produce the necessary work without his laptop.

Bee, at the other end of the scale, at almost 8yo cannot write her name. She cannot draw anything more challenging than a lopsided circle - triangles are out for her, the motor planning required to draw a diagonal line is beyond her capacity. However, with stabilisation of her lower arm, she can isolate a finger and type. She uses a predictive text program to help her with writing at school, and... very soon at home, too.

Even Bee has a "writing" goal. Her one and only goal is to be able to write/print/sign her name. We have been working on it for nearly 4 years now, and still have a long way to go (she can draw a 2" high B but that takes her a minute or longer). For her, IT is the only choice.

However, I would never recommend it as the first choice...

Banana if Write from the Start is not working, have you had a look at Handwriting Without Tears? I have seen some children come leaps and bounds with that programme...

BeeMom - I guess for me it's all about busting a gut till the child hits their potential & that's obviously gonna be different for every child.

However there is a pernicious UK SN culture of "acceptance of SN's" rather than aspiration which means many children are never given the opportunity to demonstrate their true capabilities as the adults opt for what seems to be the easy option at the time iykwim. I don't see this in other cultures to the same degree & think it's an unintended consequence of our welfare state.

The word "failure" is the most damaging word used within the educational realm. Therapies and supports are withdrawn due to "failure to progress" which actually means "we are getting tired of trying the same thing over and over again and lack the willingness or ability to think laterally to work on another route to the same goal".

DS was provided his tech as a means to express himself in the most efficient manner possible to maintain his success at school. However, he was never given "permission" to stop writing entirely, and didn't get the tech until the "foundation" for writing had been laid. With that said, in his motor skills assessment, he scored in the 2nd centile, but was still not entitled to any OT as he hadn't scored low enough. The movement forward he made was done with our support at home.

I think perhaps the "acceptance" culture is more pervasive than just within the UK, although I will admit that I am floored at the sheer number of Specialist Schools you have. Here, "self contained" classes exist within MS schools, and "withdrawal" programs (part time MS, part time "resource") are the most common support for students with "significant" SEN.

In a province with a population of 13.5 million, there are 7 hospital schools (like Bee attends), with a student population of 30-40 students per school on average. Specialist schools, like in the UK, do not exist at all. The goal for the hospital schools is a limited curriculum with the aim to transfer into MS as early as it is feasible. Bee was 2 years full time at her school of 34 students, and will be moving into a school of 1000 students for 2 days a week starting in September, with the goal of transitioning to full time MS within 2 years (more time in current school next academic year (Y3), more time in receiving school in the following year, and full time MS by Y5). No, I don't expect any "culture shock", do you?

"Integration" is a buzz word here, but for many (most) "integrated" children, they are housed in the back of the classroom, not engaged in the activity of the rest of the class, and tolerated as a necessary evil.

I don't know what the "answer" is - but I don't think we have found it yet...