Ds has been offered a place at Indi school. Some advice needed quickly please

[claw2]

Statement is still in draft form.

Indi school are saying they can meet needs. LA are saying they will fund indi school.

Do I just agree the statement?

I think my private EP report for tribunal for refusal to assess changed their minds. He was amazing. He tore school evidence and other professionals reports ie SALT to pieces. They backed down and agreed to assess after receiving his report and appear to have done a u turn.

I think the home tutor has helped greatly too. She has not been shy in backing my description of ds in meetings ie ds refusing to engage with her whatsoever, me having to carry him kicking and screaming down the stairs, refusing to get dressed as he thought she was going to take him to school etc, etc (whereas school were saying 'no problems, don't know what mum is talking about')

indi school was her suggestion (although this was the school I had in mind before her suggestion).

LA EP also named the school in her report, not so much as a recommendation, but she suggested it and made it known I would be looking at this school and also wrote she had serious concerns about ds. She wrote she could not believe this was the same child she had assessed previously and basically backed up what I was saying too, that ds was a nervous wreck due to school.

Yay. [Flowers]. . . to all hardworking, thinking professionals.

Competence. Honesty. Kindness. Listening. Thinking hard.
They must be driven round the twist by the system they're in.

Most definitely, they can make such a huge difference If it wasn't for the professionals who do put the childs interests first and take the time to actually read reports and evidence, I wouldn't have got this far (and MN of course!)

Thanks for the advice Mareey

Personally, I'd get him in the door. Let them finalise and thank them for the placement.

Then, you are free to appeal parts 2&3, but happy with Part 4.

If you push now, at draft stage, they may well withdraw the Indi offer and say to take them to tribunal for the lot.

That's my view.

The only proviso ive asked for Lougle is that ds's home tutor be allowed to continue going into school with ds, with a gradual withdraw.

They may have changed their minds (about indi placement) whilst still accepting 'no probs' from school because their own EP has documented that she has concerns about his 'deterioration' whilst out of school. ime the LA listened more to a trainee LA EP than to Ruth Birnbaum because they could get away with it prior to the hearing. Of course the behaviour did not just appear when he stopped attending but it is a potential explanation that allows them to save face (and still not acknowledge needs in parts 2 and 3).

They need to name a school in part 4 that he will attend and that you support him attending. Otherwise they would simultaneously approach m/s schools to ask whether they could meet needs and name the cheaper option. But this would result in tribunal which means that DS would be out of school for another 5/6 months.

You will need to appeal parts 2 and 3 but you should finalise to get him in the door. The head of DS1's indi was very clear that parts 2 and 3 have to detail needs/s & q provision that cannot be met in the m/s. He needs to be f/t asap. If the LA fund without tribunal ruling there is no right of appeal and so placement can be immediate. He is attending this school because of his anxiety rather than being unable to attend because of his anxiety. Attendance will be a big factor in whether or not the school is able to meet needs.

Have high expectations. It is confusing for DC because they were 'allowed' to refuse one school but not another. DS1 does not understand that the crucial difference between the schools is the ability to meet needs and so sees my behaviour as inconsistent. I know it seems impossible when DC have been out of school for some time but DS1 was f/t from day 1, boarded 1 night in week one and is now boarding all week for week 2.

The only school DS gas ever whinged about attending is the one where they have high expectations of him and make him learn.

He vastly prefers the schools that allow him to Stim all day away from the classroom and make no demands of him.

Don't we all!?

DC's needs manifest differently. DS2 is 'forced' to completely ignore his teachers because they keep telling him to do things he has no interest in doing (they still have low academic expectations though). DS1 definitely did not vastly prefer a school that left him alone to become increasingly anxious and allowed him to 'fail' academically.

I think ds was younger when we 'intervened' though. He was at the child initiated learning stage where he hadn't become anxious yet I think.

It was on the cards though. He was just starting to get things wrong and be misunderstood.

I think it would be extremely difficult for the LA to change their minds (although obviously not impossible)

The LA EP who saw ds was the same one who was involved in his dx process when he was 5 and half, just been released from hospital due to self harming and just about to change schools for the first time. Back then, he recovered quickly.

It wasn't a deterioration since being out of school, it was actually an improvement that she saw. School were just unable to recognise how bad ds actually was.

School were saying, he was a happy child. Yet when social worker visited him in school, it resulted in me being phoned and told to go and collect him immediately and take him for an emergency mental health assessment.

If she had seen him a few months previously at the same time as the social worker, she would had seen that he was smothered in bleeding cuts from self harming, unable to talk, head butting walls and threatening to kill himself etc, etc.

Claw It does sound like you're going to make it. It's just that your story is one of such brutality that those of us who have followed it just want to hear at last that you and your ds are safe and securely so.

Honestly, if you hadn't been so consistent over the years I would have thought you were making things up, and this with even my own unbelievable story.

There's still half of me that wants to know what the LA are getting out of this. There must be something even if it is simply to get rid. And that 'something' is your bargaining tool. I'd like to but cannot believe this decision has been made in the interest of your ds.

I think you can agree the school placement and use the statement as things stand then appeal the content if you need to. If the LA are not prepared to put the statement as you need it otherwise then you are going to have to go to tribunal over parts 2&3 but there is nothing to stop your son taking up the placement in the meantime. The school will work with him most likely even without a strong statement in place - in this situation it is what they do. Why not talk to the school about the statement as it stands and confirm with them how tight they need things to get him started there and making the placement work. If they are happy in the meantime then no reason not to go ahead and finalise and appeal if the LA are not budging.

claw - I'm

Did the LA EP write that she did not believe this was the same child she had previously assessed because she believed there had been significant improvement or deterioration?

In a way it does not matter what really happened in the past but what happens now and in the future. At the point where the LA was challenging your EP report, things did not look good. He didn't carry out assessments and so could not add to parts 2 and 3. He could only acknowledge that DS was anxious and that this is common in HF ASD. tbh I would not have felt confident going to tribunal with so little.

Whatever the 'cause' of the anxiety and disagreement over needs, the LA clearly want him to be in school, so much so that they are willing to fund placement that is not justified by parts 2 and 3. So if they believed that you were the cause of anxiety, they may believe that for that anxiety to reduce he needs to be away from your negative influence. (I don't really believe this btw). The CP threat may have 'gone away' but may still be influencing action taken. If this is their rationale, you are at risk of losing placement for future years unless you beef up parts 2 and 3 as the aim will be a return to m/s, maybe at secondary transition.

Work out what the fees would be over age 9 - 16/18 and I think you will find that the cost of getting rid is too much. You have said yourself that any school could meet parts 2 and 3 as they currently are and so you leave yourself wide open to the argument that indi placement is not warranted and constitutes 'unreasonable public expenditure'.

What about the onsite therapies? They had to be in parts 2 and 3 for the indi school to provide them for DS1.

Star the implication all along that started with the first school, its that I exaggerate ds's needs and by doing that I am enabling his behaviour. Rather than they are incapable of recognising his needs and giving him no support.

Everything they have done has been extremely begrudgingly. They never just agreed to SA, they wrote and said they would, BUT that they were happy about doing so.

The statement is extremely begrudgingly, its a statement nonetheless, but with lots of their 'opinions' of me in there and 'mum reports' no I didn't a professional did, its a professionals opinion, not mine or its what ds's told a professional, not me.

I think they have something up their sleeve. I wrote to them about indi school and they simply just agreed to it. They funded the few hundred quid for the trial 2 days there and funded home tutor to go with ds.

Verbally they told me that funding had been agreed for indi school too (I know to take that with a pinch of salt, but all the same)

I cant help but be suspicious too.

The medical needs centre manager has been very open with his recommendation of the Indi school at meetings, but im not sure how much weight he carries.

But I am sat in a room fully of professionals at these meetings, who have little or no involvement with ds. So the manager who is the only one who is having daily contact with ds, maybe he does carry some weight.

I would get him in and then worry what happens next. Benefit of indi school is many these profs will now fall away and give you some space. You could sit tight with crap statement until first review and then if LA try to do anything you can appeal then. At that point all profs involved with your DS will probably be via school except perhaps EP. So that weakens LA position as can't be sending their mates into indi school to cook up reports anymore. I would just take 6 months off with no LA hassle, no poisonous profs, no appeals and try and get rid of any unnecessary people eg SS. You can't stay in battlemode its a miracle you have made it this far and stayed so together. I suspect LA will want a gap now from its obvious neglect and bullying they would not want aired at any hearing and will make next review about what happens from now on.

Yes thanks Agnes, I did as you suggested, just waiting on their reply.

Cannot believe how many of them actually share an office, LA, PP, EP and even SS, all in the same building, on the same floor!

I was due another meeting with all professionals involved at the old school this week, which has been cancelled and there is talk (in writing) of meeting involving the new school and being held there, once ds gets his place, no mention of IF he gets a place there. Seems to me as if medical needs manager already knows ds has a place there from how he is talking.

Home tutor is here and apparently medical needs have received an email from indi school saying to start the process ie dates for ds to go this term. I asked whether this meant that LA had agreed to fund the placement and she said she assuming so!

Star, Agnes and others had a reply to my email.

Regarding the offer of a place LA are in agreement that a review should be held after 6 months and this will be written into statement.

At review any requests for amendments will be recorded, and if amendments have been requested to any parts, excluding parts 5 and 6, the LA will inform you if they agree or not.

If are in agreement with statement being finalised at this time, naming indi school. You can then request any changes at review.

etc, etc, etc.

It would make me nervous claw tbh, but I agree with your re: the miracle thing and would probably concede in order to get the placement going. The review does give you a right of appeal and I believe that 6 months would be too short a time to remove a placement.

They seem to suggest that they are expecting you to make amendments are review time rather than them.

I think an appeal for parts 2 and 3 at that stage could well be simply a paper exercise. Your ds will hopefully be in a suitable placement so you won't have to deal with the stress that him being out of school brings.

I would also book your indi EP for a visit one month before the review if you can afford it, for your own peace of mind amongst other things.

I agree Star I am nervous, as I really cannot work out why I have had to drag them kicking and screaming for years up until this point. Then for the sudden change of heart, even my solicitor who I was instructing for refusal to SA was saying no way will they agree to indi school, you are setting your sights too high etc, etc.

I suspect they will be trying to remove this placement at some point. I suspect they are assuming this school will be same as other 2 schools ie ds doesn't have any needs. I also suspect that they want SS out of the picture too, although SS gave me a very hard time and took schools side for a while, they have now concluded why the hell are we involved, needs are educational and he needs to be in school. I feel a lot of pacifying is happening.

They even wrote to my indi EP, firstly asking for his report to be withdrawn, then when he refused, they threatened if this goes to Tribunal you haven't heard the last of it kinda thing.

EP told me that the LA seemed to have a real bee in their bonnet about me and his report and that their responses to him stunk of back peddling.

Ah yes. That'll be it.

They want to keep the provision unspecified and unquantified because they are expecting the placement to fail.

In 6 months they are hoping for a 'Mother nuts, causing child's anxiety' justifying their cease to maintain statement or simply the keeping of a wishy-washy one that will not cost much.

Get them to finalise. Say you are not happy but do not want to hold up the placement as it is imperative that your child returns to a school asap. Then appeal parts 2 and 3.

Sorry .

The problem with appealing parts 2 and 3 now, is that I have nothing new to add to it, other than indi EP who didn't do formal assessments due to anxiety and LA EP who attempted to do formal assessments, but failed due to anxiety.

So I really don't have anything new to add by way of evidence to a new tribunal, same reports from last time, other than ds hasnt been able to attend school since June last year due to school anxiety. Which LA pretty much have covered ie provided home tuition and provided funding for placement at indi school as mum requested.

So basically, write to them confirming that they have agreed to indi placement and thanking them stating that you are certain that this school will be able to meet ds' needs adequately.

Tell them that unfortunately parts 2 and 3 do not accurately reflect his needs however and need to be rewritten and that you are aware that they have had your amendments for some time now.

Ask them to please send the final statement, preferably with your amendments so that the school placement can commence with immediate effect, regardless of whether or not you will be forced to appeal parts 2 and 3.

Appeals and tribunals are taking 6months plus atm. You can withdraw at any time, but you may have sufficient evidence (i.e. EP seeing your ds again and noting changes etc. and from the new school).

Also, you DO have evidence. It's old, but it is the best there is, and should be used as the best evidence available, not ignored.