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Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

sen mediation advice please

63 replies

MumuDeLulu · 02/05/2013 21:34

awaiting tribunal re note in lieu. dd in y5 mainstream, asd & other bits
council have bought in to a service with professional mediators from a reputable SN charity
anyone here done this?
did it help at all?
sounds good to me but is it just a trick?

tia

OP posts:
StarlightMcKenzie · 15/07/2013 16:29

Yes. That's what the law says. And LAs flout that, so parents are forced to tribunal.

How can mediation help?

(wrt to 'rights to be heard' they should be no more and no less than equal to the right to be heard of their NT peers, and the same goes for access to an adequate education)

StarlightMcKenzie · 15/07/2013 16:48

'The courts have said that local authorities must not neglect the educational needs of children with even the most complex special educational needs.'

Yes they do say that. So really, it is only a court that can enforce that, and not a mediator right?

PeopleMediation · 15/07/2013 16:50

Hi Starlight: I'd like to say that I'm not fundamentally disagreeing with you. I've advised and supported parents to challenge the decisions of LAs, including representing them at tribunal. And I've worked in voluntary sector organisations of disabled people.

LAs make decisions which parents disagree with. Parents ultimately have the right to appeal to the SEND Tribunal. Mediation is one of a range of alternative dispute resolution approaches. It is one way in which parents can seek to challenge an LA and to try and achieve a resolution. Going to tribunal is another means of doing this. I'm not saying that mediation will always work or that every situation is suitable for mediation. Equally, going to tribunal may not be the best approach in every dispute. There is scope for both. And its up to parents to decide what is best for their child in the particular situation. Its their decision and as a lawyer and a mediator I've always respected that.

As to the right to be heard: this is identical for disabled and non-disabled children. It's specifically in the UN CRPD to emphasise the point.

PeopleMediation · 15/07/2013 16:54

Starlight: ref your last post. Mediation and litigation are two different types of dispute resolution. Mediators don't enforce rights. Judges and arbitrators make awards and enforce rights. Its a "horses for courses" approach.

The research over many years on different areas shows that there is a role for mediation. Its not the only role, but it does have one in appropriate circumstances. There is never a universal solution or approach will always works no matter what. Mediation can provide support, but if you want someone to say "This LA was wrong", then mediation is not for you.

StarlightMcKenzie · 15/07/2013 16:57

But parents don't appeal because they disagree. They appeal because the LA are ignoring the evidence.

(And LA's get out of funding the provision for 6 months or so regardless of the outcome.)

PeopleMediation · 15/07/2013 17:03

Is that not the parent's disagreeing with the LAs decision or interpretation of the evidence? Regardless of whether we call it a disagreement or the LA ignoring the evidence, parents have to decide whether they're going to challenge the LA's decision and if so, how to do this.

If parents come to me for advice, I'll advise them on all of their options, and that includes mediation and it certainly includes appealing to SEND Tribunal. If parents come to me and ask me to mediate in an SEN or other education issue, then I'm willing to do that too.

StarlightMcKenzie · 15/07/2013 17:03

But what would a mediator do in a resolution that was agreed by parents and the LA but ultimately denied the child their legal rights and was in breach of the law.

I can give an example as this is a very real situation atm.

What if after an annual review the evidence demonstrated need for an additional session of SALT, which the parents wanted included in the statement.

The LA refuse and they go to mediation.

Through mediation, all agree that the child can have the additional SALT but provided the new EHC Plan is taken up in place of the statement as Pathfinder LAs have to demonstrate that they have changed 30% over before the law protecting them comes in, in order to secure their additional funding.

What would the mediator do next? Inform the parent and the LA that this would be both denying the child protected provision which they are entitled to by law AND that the LA would be breaking the law by issuing a EHC Plan in place of a statement despite both parties agreeing to it?

Or would the mediator just ignore this breaking of the law because everyone was happy?

Or would the mediator have no idea what I was talking about above?

StarlightMcKenzie · 15/07/2013 17:10

The majority of tribunal appeals begin due to the fact that the LA refuses to specify or quantify as is their duty by law. There is no interpretation there.

The details of those specifics will need to be 'interpreted' yes, but that comes later.

I wonder what mediators would be doing in those circumstances. I would be absolutely delighted if they would tell the LA that they must specify and get a bloody move on. I can see that the specificity can then possibly be 'interpreted' and as such worked on in partnership.

But unless mediators can do that I still, really can't see the point.

PeopleMediation · 15/07/2013 17:30

You raise a valid concern. I feel that part of the issue for you is that you feel that mediators are not aware of the law. This isn't true of all of us. I can only say what my approach might be.

The approach to mediation which I'm trained in includes providing information, but not advice, to the parties. If my view was that parents were not aware of a particular point, such as the one you mention, then I would provide the relevant information and do so in an impartial way to both parties in the face-to-face meeting. Also, the parties always have the right to consult lawyers at any stage, and as mediators, we remind the parties of this. Its can be particularly important when one party is a part of the state e.g. an LA and so will be seen as having greater resources than the other e.g. parents. If the mediator believed that an LA was knowingly seeking to induce parents to agree to a resolution which was in breach of the law, then the mediator would have to decide whether s/he could properly continue or should end the mediation. This isn't an easy decision to make. For obvious reasons, its not appropriate for me to make comments on the specific situation you mention and I'm not doing so.

In evaluative mediation, the mediator may provide an opinion as to what a court/tribunal might decide. This is a different approach to the facilitative mediation which is more usual in family mediation. This is why I said in an earlier posting that its important to find out what approach a particular mediator will use.

StarlightMcKenzie · 15/07/2013 17:40

I think that there is a systemic culture of ignoring the law in SEN tbh. I am extremely concerned that mediators will further endorse this attitude and culture by either not skilling themselves up in this area or by going native in a system that doesn't care and therefore duping parents into accepting less than their child's lawful entitlement.

That is why regardless of their non-jurisdiction role, it is essential that mediators are aware of and make the parties involved aware of, any unlawful practices or decisions.

PeopleMediation · 15/07/2013 17:53

I can't speak for all mediators, only for me. I'm familiar with SEN and this is one of the reasons why I decided to develop a practice in this area.

AgnesDiPesto · 15/07/2013 18:21

In civil litigation parties will come to the table having both had the opportunity to obtain evidence including medical evidence and legal advice and to calculate past and future losses / needs. They come equipped with the information they need to reach a compromise.

In an SEN mediation the parent is often coming to the table not knowing what an adequate education for a child with SEN looks like. Usually the only 'evidence' are reports from SLT, OT, EP, Outreach, School etc which set out bands of provision, or a statement about what their service will provide, not a detailed assessment of needs or the provision to meet those needs. Many parents don't know what options exist for their child, they don't know what is possible.

Often SEN provision is poor. Most SEN professionals have a local monopoly for eg for speech therapy provision in schools. Autism Professionals can work in the sector for years and never have come across a single bit of evidence based practice they just carry out interventions 'because thats how we have always done it' or because that whats they learnt on a 1 day sensory course, or because they have been on a 5 day TEACCH course 10 years previously. Usually there is a one size fits all basic generic approach with pretty much zero evidence to support it. Most autism professionals and teachers I have met have themselves never seen good autism intervention.

How then does a parent prove that this piss poor provision will not meet their child's needs when there is no evidence other than their gut instinct and when all the LA obtained evidence points to this being sufficient (on the basis they have a policy thats says so). How does a non clued up parent not end up agreeing to a 'compromise' which in fact has no hope of meeting the needs of that individual child. How can you allow a compromise that gives the child less that the minimum education they need? How do you, a non autism specialist, know what a minimum adequate education for that child is - you have no EP or specialist panel to ask.

It seems to me you are starting from the position that an LA would never offer an inadequate education and never compromise below this basic level. The reality is LAs hand out this type of substandard provision day in and day out knowing it will not meet need but knowing it will kick the football a bit further down the road to the next years budget or the one after that.

4 years ago I was told my child did not need 1:1, did not need specialist teaching, would be fine in mainstream unsupported, and was not a danger to himself as they would draw a line on the floor near the fire door and tell him not to cross it and being autistic and rule driven he would be helpless but to obey. I was told this by the LA's most senior autism teacher. Had I listened to / being taken in / compromised about this utter crap my son would be dead by now having had to be scraped off the pavement when he escaped from nursery due to having no 1:1. He still requires specialist teaching - 35 hours a week 48 weeks a year the tribunal decided - 4 years later. We were stuck with their provision for 18 months while we went to tribunal - he learnt nothing despite having fulltime 1:1 for the last 12 months, thats right nothing. In fact he actually went backwards at nursery while we achieved good progress at home with private input. Hardly an adequate education. The tribunal awarded us 10 times the cost of the provision the LA deemed suitable and commented the LA were unable to persuade the tribunal it could provide for my son's needs in any of their own schools. How would you have known the LA could not meet need without questioning the autism teacher and EP who ran the service? How would you have seen through the lies the LA presented to the tribunal without an indep EP to help you out by asking pertinent and testing questions? What personal knowledge do you have of indep autism provision or provision in other LAs that would allow you to tell if the LA provision was up to scratch or not?

How can a LA get it so wrong that they were offering only 1/10th of the provision a tribunal decided was needed? Its not that the LA were clueless their own EP told them to provide the specialist support the tribunal eventually awarded - the LA very deliberately put my child in mainstream against all evidence and advice to save money, no other reason. How do you compromise with someone who is willing to break the law and force a child into certain failure for the sake of saving money? And when they can persuade their own autism teachers and mates in SLT to back them? When they threatened to remove all the funding from our private nursery for every child unless the nursery agreed not to give evidence against them?

How would you advise a parent in my situation who did not have the ability to see through the lies or to hire the indep experts to advise them?

Most of all how will you know at the end of the mediation that the compromise you have helped achieved is sufficient for that individual child when you have no specialist knowledge of how to teach an autistic child yourself and perhaps have never visited an autism school?

And before you argue that the zero achievement was because my son was so profoundly autistic he was incapable of being taught, I would say he is now exceeding all expectations and performing in line with his mainstream peers in many areas and above his peers in a few subjects. If I had accepted what was offered he would be like the child in the other Year 1 class who has not had good intervention and spends his days in severe distress throwing chairs, tantrumming on the floor, leading his clueless 1:1 a merry dance and generally learning nothing. His parents are not clued up, indeed for a long time they were in denial he had autism and were reluctant for any autism intervention to take place. What rights does that child have when he cannot speak for himself and there is no independent expert to speak for him? Who is going to achieve an adequate compromise or education for that child?

AgnesDiPesto · 15/07/2013 19:48

Sorry that post probably sounded like it was directed at you. My concern is about sen mediation generally. i think parents should be able to get legal and expert advice on legal aid before any mediation and have their lawyer with them. My LA uses mediators with a background in neighbour disputes they have no sen experience and the annual contract is less than 2 days of what an experienced lawyer who does mediation would charge which raises huge concerns about quality for me.

PeopleMediation · 16/07/2013 08:06

Hi Agnes
Thanks for your points, and a number of these are very good and clearly heartfelt. I can appreciate your standpoint. Unfortunately, I can't reply fully right now as I'm going to be away all day with clients, but I'll try to come back to you tomorrow.

Could I please just again say that I'm not defending all mediators nor am I defending or justifying the actions of either parents or LAs. I can only speak for myself and I do have experience of SEN and I'm trained to mediate specifically in situations involving couples, parents and families. I don't claim to know everything about mediation. I made my original posting only to offer some additional information which other posters might not be aware of.

OK. A point I've already made is that mediation is only one option which parents can consider. Litigation, appealing to SEND Tribunal, is another. Its up to parents to decide how they want to take their child's case forward. Mediation won't be suitable for every situation. Mediation shouldn't be forced on parents, but neither should they feel compelled to pursue an appeal all the way through to final hearing if there are appropriate alternatives. Again, its up to the individual parents.

Where you've said "Its seems to me that you are starting from a position that an LA would never offer inadequate provision ..." I hope that this wasn't directed at me. I do not start with any assumptions of that sort. My experience in fact is that LAs do offer inadequate provision, and that is precisely what parents can and do challenge.

I had hoped to help open up the debate with some additional information. Again, I'm not defending LAs or indeed anyone else (parents, teachers, experts etc). Please do not shoot the messenger when all I am attempting to do is engage in a discussion

If you would like me to reply more fully to you, then of course I'll be happy to do so.

Anyway, I hope everyone is enjoying at least some of the sunny weather!

AgnesDiPesto · 16/07/2013 09:45

I used to be a solicitor and advise people on personal injury claims. Most of my clients had no idea what their claim was worth or what an appropriate settlement was. For a child a claim could not be settled without the approval of the court and required a barristers advice. There were safeguards to ensure a claim was not undersettled for a child. For adults there was always the option to sue me for negligence if I got it badly wrong. Here parents have no access to free legal advice and no one to tell them what is too little in terms of provision. I dont believe parents should be mediating without being properly advised and informed. Yes parents have a choice but the vulnerable parents - who may have LD themselves - will not know to opt out of mediation. They will trust the process. I don't feel comfortable asking parents to reach a compromise without any indep advice that compromise meets need. Many parents do settle for far less than their child needs already very few parents use the tribunal route. It seems to me there is no safeguard for the child. On paper my LA made my son sound vastly less disabled than he was. They cherry picked from reports. On paper they were very convincing. I had to collect my own evidence to rebut this. How do you mediate when a LA has stitched up evidence to say a child had mild autism when they don't . There were times believe me when I wanted that to be true, he was only 2 i wanted it to be mild. While I knew the LA were not being honest it is only now looking back and given what I now know about autism that I realise how it would have been apparent he was severe. He was diagnosed within 30 seconds. There was no basis to say he was mild. Parents dot always know how severe their child's needs are. They don't know what is needed or available. This is why I think it is wrong to put parents into a situation of negotiating without any indep advice.

claw2 · 16/07/2013 10:33

Is mediation the same/similar as Parent Partnership?

I was asked to attend a meeting pre tribunal to appeal NIL with Parent Partnership. It was used to see what evidence I had for Tribunal.

chocnomore · 16/07/2013 10:57

Parent partnership is different afaik

RE mediation - our LA uses a company where some staff used to be employed by the LA (as head of service!!!). now how independent is that?

TOWIELA · 16/07/2013 11:00

Peoplemediation - I have read your post and the replies with great interest. I have also read posts on other threads about relationships between parents and LAs. Very unlike me, I haven't waded straight in with a reply on either thread but wanted some quiet time for reflection on my particular situation.

I really am not shooting the messenger and this post isn't personally aimed at you, but I have great unease about the need for 'mediators' in the first place. The term 'mediator' implies that a relationship has broken down and concessions from both sides are required. This is totally appropriate for say, divorcing couples, or even perhaps in employment law when a work relationship has broken down (are mediators used for employment law?

StarlightMcKenzie · 16/07/2013 11:02

I don't see how it could ever be independent, and paid by the LA.

If the mediators raise or 'give information' that makes everyone aware that the child's needs are being denied in accordance with the law, they won't be awarded the contract next time will they?

Because if the LA had any intention of following the law, the majority of cases wouldn't be appealed.

StarlightMcKenzie · 16/07/2013 11:03

What would be 'fair' I suppose, is if the LA awarded a grant to the parents for an advocate of their choosing (aka legal aid).

inappropriatelyemployed · 16/07/2013 11:33

I think the problem with mediation is that, as TOWIE says, it is premised on the idea that people simply need more effective ways of communicating with each other as there has been some kind of breakdown in a relationship which they can't find their way through. And that an objective voice would help with that.

In reality, parents don't appeal because (as the Gov appears to suggest they are being told to 'up the ante') or because they are demanding.

But mediation does not take place as an alternative to a hearing as in civil courts where both parties have legal advice.

It takes place in a huge power imbalance -

-on the one side, an LA with with its SEN team, and its NHS partners, all who do this job daily who have the resources to challenge and stonewall and who know their own system and practices inside out

-on the other side a parent, often struggling to cope with work, getting time off work, other children, a high needs disabled child and having to pay for alternative evidence and representation, who is finding it impossible to access information about practices and schools etc

All in the presence of a mediator (paid for by the LA) who can't/won't 'take sides' and guide and so who won't flag up illegal policies and practices and who may allow LAs to offer their 'position' and policies (which may well be unlawful) without challenge.

Why would a parent put themselves through it?

claw2 · 16/07/2013 12:19

Chocnomore, how are PP different? who employs them?

chocnomore · 16/07/2013 12:38

I think they are in most cases employed by the LAs and their role is to give independent advise and support to parents (but not so much mediation). see here.

some here have had good experiences with PP but I found them to be a total waste of time. they were anything but independent and clearly on the side of the LA.

claw2 · 16/07/2013 13:01

In my case it was used for mediation ie when school/LA/me didnt agree. I was told by PP to 'ignore all indi reports' as these ask for 'Rolls Royce provision' and to 'focus on NHS report' as a 'tribunal would look at it as me being greedy'

The only difference between indi reports and NHS reports was that indi reports specified and quantified provision and were more detailed.

As others have said it is worrying, that mediation isn't legal advice and what is required by Law to meet a childs needs, but about compromise all on the parents/childs part.

ilikemysleep · 16/07/2013 18:25

Not every single tribunal is brought reasonably and in not every single case is the parent fighting only for their child's legal entitlement sorry I don't agree with that. I have NO DOUBT that that was the case for posters here but you can't extrapolate to say that that is always the case in every single tribunal. A relative was at a tribunal some years ago where a parent had a child with an IQ of 85, no other diagnosed SEN (despite private and LA reports), just low average IQ, and wanted a statement and a mainstream independent school place. The parent had an absolute right to make that appeal, but is it reasonable to demand a statement and a private school place just because your child's cognitive level is at the 15th percentile?

Of course these cases might well not be for mediation. I do think sometimes there is an assumption here that the parent is always right, always reasonable, and always fighting for justice but there are unreasonable parents out there. Not here, but out there.