Your advice re: Educational Psychologist would be greatly appreciated

[someoneoutthere]

We live abroad. DS,7 and ASD, is in a mainstream school with an ABA trained 1:1 at present. We want to get a thorough assessment done by an educational psychologist on his needs. We will be visiting the UK over the summer holiday period and would like the assessment to take place around that time. So far, from the old post in MN I have found the following names in and around London:

-David Urani
-Allan Wills
-Carolyn Smith
-Helen Arkyll Centre, Farnham
-Frye Associates, North London and
-John Hall in Bristol (we will be based in London, but can go to Bristol if he is the best for what we need)

Please advice on who will be best for DS. The questions we have in mind are-what type of schools are best suited for DS's needs, SS or MS? DS is language delayed and his speech is a bit disordered ( no problem with speech sound, it's more sentence construction). He can answer most "wh" questions except "when and why". He will ask what and where questions consistently. He attended an ABA SS school until he was 6, but had very challenging behaviours there and so his learning was compromised. The ABA school he attended also did not have a curriculum for education, so he was not taught any reading, writing etc. He copied the behaviours of other kids there, so would do a runner, shriek, flaps (he did not have these behaviours previously).

Last september we moved him to a MS school with an ABA 1:1. He has since then learnt to read and write, spell, mastered the foundation level maths etc. His challenging behaviours have disappeared, his social skills have improved in that he is taking turns with other children, playing chasing and running game etc. He also copies other kids, so for example, if the teacher asked to draw something found under the grounds, although he did not understand what was being asked, he copied a diamond the boy next to him was drawing. These are all the positives of attending a MS school.

We are due to move again. And we don't have the option of a SS school in the new country and we feel that a MS school is best suited for DS's needs anyhow. We want to get the ED Psychologist to do a cognitive assessment, tell us what is required for progress, what type of help should be provided to DS to succeed in a MS school. We also want to get an assessment done on whether DS has any learning difficutlies.

Please advice on who will be best to advise on DS's needs. We are not bothered about costs of assessment.

:-)))

This is a particularly busy time of year for experts who do tribunal work, because they are dealing with the appeals for secondary school places which can only happen after the issue of amended statements which has to be dealt with by mid February.

I thought it was unduly harsh to attack the OP. I saw nothing arrogant in what she was saying. I have tried to arrange appointments with that EP in the past spa d encountered similar problems so went elsewhere.

I am sure people are busy but this is not an over stretched NHS dept it is a private business and if you ring a garage or a hotel you expect people to answer queries promptly. Why expect any less of someone dealing with vulnerable children? If they are really swamped - stop taking referrals or communicate better about it.

Private EPs certainly charge enough to hire sufficient staff!!

I say this as someone who runs her own business.

Ach, it's an internet tone thing. The op came across arrogant, and I came across as attacking. Neither was actually the case, but it's getting extremely old rehashing it, and we've all got phone calls to make, appeal letters to write, tribunals to plan for, flights to book, kids to stretch, tongue exercises to do, teachers to argue with, paed's to chase, ot's to beg for more time, physios to beg for equipment, charity applications to pen, dla applications to slog through, and somewhere along the line, children to raise.

He/ she has got the appointment. All good. The services are still overworked, and the receptionists are still unable to answer questions in the very short term. 'twas ever thus.

Not an attack. Just a reminder of what the UK SN system looks like, because believe me, it's easy to forget in a country where receptionists call back.

I didn't know you'd changed jobs, btw. It only seems like 5 minutes since you got the other one! Time goes by so quickly!

Did you manage to make an appointment?

I have seen 2 of the EP's mentioned. I can highly recommend David Urani, although he it is difficult to get appointments with him.

The other EP, (please send me a message for name), I could not recommend. He is not an autism specialist and I think you would do better seeing somebody else.

Another one I have in my list to contact if I need to get my son assessed again is Dirk Flowers. You could also try London Children's Practice, they are multidisciplinary, but I think they have an EP, and are a bit more business like with appointments.

"The OP came across as arrogant and I came across as attacking her"

The latter is true but only you believe the former.

This is a country where receptionists of very highly paid private practitioners should call back. That has nothing to do with the SEN system and everything to do with courtesy and good customer service.

These EPs charge thousands and make a VERY good living from the SEN system. Responding to contact from parents is a basic minimum courtesy.

Today I was informed by the LA that they have accepted an offer of place at an independent specialist school for my son. They are naming it in part 4 of his statement. It has taken me 14 months to reach this stage.

The person who got the ball rolling was EP, John Hutchings - associate of Ruth Birnbaum. I have a completely different experience of her; she went out of her way to get me an appointment as I was in a dire situation. I will never forget what she did for me.

John Hutchings is also the one who detected my son is on the autism spectrum. Further assessments by various autism experts confirmed his suspicions. Their reports were then validated by CAHMS.

I only wanted to share my experience as in future if anyone finds themselves in the same situation as I was in, ie. heading towards tribunal (LA backed down thanks to John's report) - to please contact this firm of EPs ......

"I was not sure what I have said to cause such offence."

someoneoutthere you have done nothing wrong...you are doing whats best for your child and that should be commended!

Righty ho.

As an aside - I have always found it more beneficial to get reports done by professionals in the destination country, in order to start to learn the ropes of the new system faster. UK professionals are great (and you have the benefit of speaking the same language) but often their recommendations are difficult to interpret in an international environment.

So, the UK private Ed psych report is a fantastic opener, but often you end up paying for the same assessment to be replicated in order for the new host country to take it into account.

It obviously depends a lot on your next move, and whether you intend to use an international school, etc. I do still refer to our UK reports when I am unsure of how to interpret local ones, but the authorities start with the local ones and just tend to file the UK versions.

And apologies for the total derail. My one comment wasn't supposed to cause such unnecessary excitement. Anyone is allowed to post that they are pissed off with service, of course. I do myself, frequently. And find it fairly amusing that I've been forced onto the side of the poor human receptionist, when I'm normally the one griping about them.

That said, there's a whole other ball game at play between ex-pat usage of UK facilities when there are internal waiting lists. We all have to fight for what's best for our own children, and often those who shout loudest get heard. (You are your child's only advocate etc). I have a particular angst surrounding those kids who fall through the net, whose parents aren't as capable, etc etc. it doesn't make me fight any less hard for my own kids, but I do feel enormously guilty about flashing the cash when I know others are unable to work it in that way.

My problem, not yours.

Apologies accepted alwayslateforwork. I think you jumped into the conclusion there about me flashing my cash. I have a month between children finishing school and moving to a new country and the children starting a new school. Realistically, I can only spend 10 days in the UK as I need the other days to prepare for the move. I have explained all these and therefore why I need to get it sorted when I called to book my assessment.

We have been asked by the school to have an assessment report by an European qualified EP as it is a British curriculam school and the headmaster said not to go for a local EP.

I have a genuine question to ask you- just because we are expat now, are we not British citizen anymore? Do we become second class citizen as an expat that British citizen living in the UK gets priority over us even for a privately funded assessment? I would understand it if an EP prioritises tribunal work over a normal assessment of need, but what's the difference between us and somebody else wanting to know what the needs of their child are, so that appropriate help can be put in place.

No stopping, I have already apologised about stating my feelings. Congratulations for getting the Independent school, hope it will works out for your son.

When I used 'flashing cash' I didn't mean in the context of being showy about money, just that you are able to find and use cash to solve your timescale problem in the way that a lot of sn parents aren't... Or have scrimped together the money in order to make their last ditch attempt at securing provision by paying for a private assessment iyswim.

I don't know what your citizenship status is - I'm still a British citizen, because I haven't taken the citizenship tests here. I know that I am (theoretically) unable to use NHS services (but I also know that a lot of ex-pats do, on a health tourism basis). It's the same as Saudi Kings (or whoever) flying in, in their private jets, to attend treatments at top London hospitals. All fine, all legal, all putting cash into the private practitioners pockets.

There's nothing 'wrong' with it. I feel uncomfortable using home country facilities on that sort of basis because I know I'm taking the place of someone whose need is ostensibly greater. And of course, they don't prioritise tribunal work - they prioritise as best they can with whatever is to hand - which pretty much always means the parents with the best ability to negotiate and advocate (ie you and I). It does mean that parents who are less able for all sorts of reasons have children who are (still) not supported.

The real issue is that many kids whose needs should be comfortably met by NHS and la resources without any bother at all are being left to fail, miserably, and that parents who should be nowhere near using private resources are having to scrape together the funds to fight as a matter of course. Because to get adequate support out of the state entails bankrupting yourself in the private sector to fight for it.

In a fair society, those kids should already have their needs met, which would leave the private facilities available for folk who have other reasons for using them (like those who live out of the country, don't qualify for NHS or LA resource, but would like an assessment for other reasons) or who would like advice on alternative treatments etc.

As I clumsily tried to say, the problem is neither you nor I, but an inadequate system where kids are being failed, and parents are having to fight to use private resource in order to attempt to get kids needs met.

It's nothing to do with being second-class. It's to do with the state of the UK sn system and it's inadequacy for the people who rely on it on a day to day basis. Ie, not you and I.