Does your HFA kid have regular input in school from SLT or Comm Diff Team?

[Blessyou]

They want to discharge DS.

He is nearly 6, Yr1.
Started school 12 months ago , MS has FT 1:1.
Has been seen 4 times in school by the Highly Specialist SLT we were seeing from age 2.
Communication Difficulties team observed him once, wrote report, and said 'contact us for input on request'.

Now the SLT is proposing discharge as the strategies in place are effective.

I am very uncomfortable with the idea of the school having no regular advice or support from external, specialist agencies.

His SSA is not a specialist, but has been on relevant short courses. She is very willing but has required guidance from SLT, and has taken it on board from her better than from me (I am obviously one of those overanxious mothers )

eg Recently, SSA was pushing him to integrate more at break time and join in games, me and SLT told her he needed that time to de-stress from the classroom and run around in circles on his own if he wanted to - she accepted this advice when SLT said it.

I did complain to the PCT about access to SLT services a few years ago, and took it to the second level. I also got his statement re-drafted 3 times because the SLT stuff was put in Part 6 initially, then not quantified; so they are wary of me

What do you think, AIBU in insisting on regular reviews eg every 6 months? What happens where you are?

Dd3 has just recently had a block of 10 weeks with an SLT in school but that is the first time she has had any input.

SLT for social communication was recommended on her SLT report but no one has ever been to see her.

The SENCO has been trying to get someone in to see her for ages.

The proffs are very quick to discharge children with Asd. It seems like they give the dx but then dont actually give any support.

I would ask them to review 6 monthly if they will. At least that way you know they are still in the system.

Good luck

My son was discharged at a you g age - he had no statement so had no salt input at all from age 5 - 9 - no report even done for statutory assessment 2 years ago. Fast forward to now and we have just come out of tribunal, we had private report done and his salt issues were huge, as LA had no report all of our recommendations have gone into the statement and he will ow get 90 mins a week salt but he is also heading to an independent school.

I would fight to keep it as they really will always need salt input but there seems to be a culture of just discharging them. Have they produced any evidence that the I prove nets are so great that he needs no input? I would also guess that if it goes of his statement it will be very difficult to ever get back

We have ABA prog so less need for SLT. LA use SLT to spy on ABA dressed up as a consultative role for ABA. It's pointless as SLT knows nothing about autism but is supposed to be advising a senior ABA consultant. DS is year 1. We are trying to ditch NHS SLT but think there is a role for specialist SLT to bat ideas around with ABA and as you say back us up at school for eg teachers not adjusting language etc. We now pay privately for SLT with ABA / ASD exp to consult with ABA 6 times a year and do some SLT assessments from time to time. She advised DS needs for SLT will increase in future as when his language moves on (currently 2-3 years behind) he will need more help eg with inference, pragmatics etc. for HF kids the SLT is needed more for when academic work moves more onto subtle parts of language. So I would say you are right there is a need but NHS therapy rarely covers these needs.

Would also say that spoke to a private SLT who advises a new asd / ABA secondary school. Some children have always had ABA or specialist education at primary but some have come direct from mainstream primary. Says she is picking up huge gaps in language and understanding in those children who have not had intensive SLT input at primary. Often subtle problems eg literal understanding etc get missed by teachers but cause problems later on. I'm afraid you are probably looking at getting a private assessment to show gaps but private SLT could do this for say £120.

DS has daily group communication therapy at his special school.

If he attended MS he would have had 20 hours 1:1 with 45mins weekly of SALT as that was what was 'won' at tribunal. The reason he is in a special school is that he is very HF, behaviour well controlled and quite passive - so they tried to remove his 1:1 and SALT at the following Annual Review.

So put him in a special school where he woukdn't be so neglected iyswim.

Ds has a SALT come in 2x a term to see him. He didn't even get this level of input until after I'd won it for him at Tribunal aged 7. Year 3 is I believe very late for SALT interventions to commence.

But she sets excellent, measurable targets, and is on the end of the phone if we get "stuck" at any time. The targets are shared with everyone so the even lunch staff prompt. The TA introduces new skills at a weekly social skills group, but the key to success is embedding the new skill each week into his daily life. Too often social skills sessions happen in isolation from what I hear of other schools practices - the child HAS to practice & generalise in as many situations and environments as possible to really "get" pragmatic stuff etc.

I meet with his CT once a week for 15 mins to go over any language issues that looming on the curriculum for the following week (recently been working hard on maths vocab for instance).

DS has excellent expressive skills, it's on the receptive side he's very weak. (5th centile). It was well worth the fight to get SALT for him as now he has clue what he's being asked to do he is a much happier child. He fends far less time wandering around in an utterly confused fug than he used to.

It's an all too rare example of joined up cohesive support in practice that makes it work for DS. However it's been so successful a strategy that everyone is really motivated to keep going as actually Teachers get off on seeing struggling kids make massive strides in progress .

It's not enough just to be able to speak & to understand means more than just simple, single instructions. HF kids need to be helped to understand the complexities of language to function in every day life, not just literature lessons iykwim.

'the key to success is embedding the new skill each week into his daily life'

Your set up sounds great Bochead. You've a good 'un there.
So true about teachers getting off on success.
I think many have an unspoken and unrecognized acceptance of nothing changing.
Once it does, the reactions of those around the child are, almost without exception, ones of sheer delight and amazement.

DS1 was discharged at the same age, with some social communication stuff to work through with a TA with a lot of experience in that sort of stuff. We were quite happy with this because we'd seen a huge leap in communication ability on top of already good technical language when he started on his ADHD medication (which shows just how much various co-morbids can affect each other). He's quite geeky about language and syntax and we feel well enough equipped to use this to our advantage when we find ourselves needing to stop any gaps. We can play games with language and how it's used to our heart's content.

If he hadn't had that leap when he was 6, we wouldn't have wanted him discharged, though because his grasp of vocabulary and grammar were purely that, before then. It didn't matter how many words for tired he knew, if he was just going to scream instead of telling us he's tired.

Thank you so much everyone for sharing your experiences and opinions

Sorry, I had to post and run this morning.

Bjkmummy I fear your point about losing SLT input off the statement and never getting it back may be right.

I am trying to compose a letter in reply to her discharge letter and to make my points cohesive, which is hard as I am acutely and chronically sleep deprived atm!

Added difficulty is that she phoned and discussed with DH who said "Fine. Thanks. Bye"

She is actually very good. I have a lot of respect for her and she has lots of ASD experience and knowledge. Her reports for his statement were excellent which made our negotitions with LA much easier than they could have been!

Accessing the service has always been a battle, though. Hence, complaints etc. I really want her continued input, especially at Annual Review (which we have yet to have, it's next month).

So: I believe he needs continued input to enable him to access the full curriculum and manage social interactions in school. As academic demands increase, I anticipate his difficulties with language (eg pragmatics and inference thanks Agnes ) will prove a greater barrier to achieving his potential.
I would be interested to read her reports from visits made over the last 12 months since he started school, and her assessments that show his improvement is so great he no longer requires input.
I would like her the SLT team to be involved in target setting on his IEP wrt communication, language and social targets.

Any other key points you think I ought to make? Thank you for your time.

If I get nowhere, then I think it will be private assessment.

Another thing I like to do is point out relevant national guidelines which support my case.

Anyone aware of any which may be relevant?

I am browsing
www.sign.ac.uk/pdf/sign98.pdf
www.rcslt.org/speech_and_language_therapy/commissioning/asd_plus_intro

and can't access

Royal College of Speech & Language Therapists Clinical Guidelines, 2005 RCSLT, Speechmark.

www.rcslt.org/speech_and_language_therapy/standards/CQ3_pdf

Here. Quote their own code back to them.

Star you're a star

Off to read it!

I quoted bits of this to my LA recently as it made my point about ASD expertise SLT needed quite nicely! Anyone want a bet how much of this wish list for SLT ends up in my statement! To be honest I would settle for item 1, that would be a def improvement on the past 3 years.

"Detailed ?Knowledge and Skills? required of speech pathologists working in ASD will be outlined in Speech Pathology Australia?s Guidelines for speech pathologists assessing, diagnosing and treating clients with Autism Spectrum Disorder (under development). In broad terms, however, the requisite knowledge and skills may include:
A sound knowledge and understanding of the core characteristics of ASD including the communication and behavior of a child with ASD;
A knowledge of available screening, assessment and observation tools and ability to interpret results and evaluate the language and pragmatic skills of a child with ASD;
Ability to analyse the underlying pragmatic language disorder and its impact on the communication development of a child with ASD;
Knowledge of a range of intervention approaches and programs appropriate to an individual with ASD;
Ability to plan and implement communication intervention;
Skills to develop functional visual strategies to assist with the child?s communication and
behaviour;
Knowledge of behavioural techniques and programs and ability to manage the child?s behaviour
and optimise outcomes during therapy;
Ability to work with families and utilise family-centred approaches, as appropriate; and
Application of a multidisciplinary consultative approach through contact with other specialists,
educators and support workers involved in the management of an individual with ASD."

Star is using the best resource which is the RCSLT's (Royal College of Speech and Language Therapy) professional guidelines, 'Communicating Quality', of which every s/lt has a copy and is expected to be familiar with.

Agnes, that is Australian stuff thus not really relevant to the UK.,
The LEA will have no legal obligation to acquaint themselves with RCSLT legislation either. Most have no idea what the SEN CoP contains, let alone anything else.

Bear in mind however there is case law (Lanchashire Judgement, 1989-details on IPSEA website) which clearly states that s/lt is an educational need so key issue is getting s/lt on your child's statemennt under the 'Educational Nee''s section and NOT the 'Non Educational Needs' section (as 99% of LEA officers will try to do).

Once you've got your s/lt in there, you'll then have to ascertain whether it does what it says on the tin.

Thank you for your responses.

I have spent the evening reading many documents and look and feel like this >

I did get the SLT stuff shifted from Part 6 into part 3 on his statement, due to good advice on here (I namechange a lot, so hopefully am not too recognisable).

I have drafted an initial letter, which is my response to her discharge letter. I haven't made any references yet to supportive documentation. I suppose I hope that I won't need to and she will support my requests.

I don't want to post it on here paranoid but would be really grateful if a couple of folk would cast their eye over it. I feel it may be a bit too emotional, which is how I feel right now, so would appreciate comments about that.

Please let me know if you you are willing, and I will pm it to you.

I think the onus needs to be on the salt to show that he no longer needs it. What measurable targets has she been using so she can show improvement?

I won by salt via tribunal. They wanted to put it in part 6 but conceded on morning of tribunal to part 3. If they do remove it, it may be a tribunal battle to get it back but think they will look ridiculous taking you to tribunal over it especially as in reality he is getting so little input as it is.

There seems to be a culture of 'oh, he's doing okay - let's discharge' my older son finally got OT input - they saw him 3 times and discharged him! They have accepted that as he has had no OT that's its now too late and OT won't work!

You may need a private report. Mine cost £150 and was really good. I think it may be a case of dig your heels in and when they can see you mean business they may back down but it's really pants that they are putting you through this.

Ok, letter sent, copy to school.
Thanks for your reply.
I think you are right there, they need to prove help no longer needed, not the other way round, at this stage. Am prepared to go for private assessment if necessary (hope it's not, can't really spare the £)

She's phoned me. I'm going to meet her later this week.