Help with CAMHS please and crappy school, worried.

[maxybrown]

OK, will try and be brief but to the point I promise (even though I know it will still be long)but bit of background.

DS is 5 and in Reception. Attended the school nursery too.

Lost all words when small and has been under SALT since he was 2.

Language is now excellent - to the extreme, uses words other 4/5 year olds wouldn't understand etc - always in correct context.

Is a conformer and thinks everyone else should always do the right thing too.

Had issues n nursery, needing to sit in right place, correct lids not being on felt tips - everyone getting it wrong.

He controls all situations - poor eye contact, will completely blank people, not good socially at all, meltdowns, people always getting it wrong - shouldn't be talking to him etc etc. Doesn't like t be touched or people near him - now plays with a couple f children (I use this term loosley however) but tells me they never play the right game and they don't understand. He is def underachieving at school.

Had parents evening last week - teacher really annoys us, very patronising and doesn't know DS one little bit. However although they miss all the subtleties in school and have their heads in the clouds, she thinks he is seeming ok now - even after she admitted he still would never ever approach her if he had a problem, it's only if she notices/ All his work states refuses to use any tools/accept help offered - wants to work alone, still not using the toilets, no water bottle as it's a trigger etc etc.

EP has observed and totally believes us and sees some things but second observation she said he seemed quite relaxed - BUT she said still 100% belives what we say - socially he can be a nightmare, never wants to go to school, says school are getting it wrong as he is not happy - he (DS) has even requested to have another parents evening as he thinks it's a good idea he needs to tell them it all so that they belive it is true! EP assessed him and says functioning at about age 8.5 for understanding.

Woman from SALT who wrks alongside CAMHS observed and met with him (fortunately on not a great day for him) and agreed needs investigating, precocious speech, no eye contact - playing alone.

So, basically (sorry am getting there - still loads more I could say too sorry) at CAMHS on Thursday morning - first appt with them and am worried they will think I am mad and a crap mother as DS is appparently "fine" in school (he isn't as fine as she makes out but perhaps not socially as extreme as can be with us/outside). The EP has written how DS is classic child to present differently in diff situations and he needs understanding and that he is v intelligent. I asked teacher how he is doing academically and tbh she didn't know - she ummed and aahed and then said slowly he was above the national average but didn't stand out in any subject (thanks) this is the child that likes to discuss how the earth began and play draughts and chess - and one of his fave TV programmes is essentially anything with Brian Cox. So I know at the very least science and maths would stand out over literacy - and oddly his last IEP stated he was good in Maths.................(I hate her can you tell?)

So, what do I say on Thursday - he is well known to a few professionals now anyway - but his teacher comes across as all nicey nicey and nods her head a lot in the right places, but she STILL does not know my child and I feel the more I try and say, the madder I will seem :(

Teacher also told EP she had him in top group for reading due to him being very intelligent (his reading doe snot appear great tbh) but she told me he was border line and that the other groups are quite full

sorry I'll stop and see what advice comes along..............

Sounds like my dd. She's in y5 now and you're already way ahead with the help and assessments you've had so far compared to me! I just keep getting told dd is fine. I KNOW she is not fine. When a 9 year old can't tell her form teacher that she has homework to be handed in to deputy head (accelerated maths class), or that her breaktime milk is 3 days out of date and tastes sour (!! !!), then she clearly is NOT fine. I have my first meeting with school nurse on Friday morning to start the ball rolling for assessments. I feel like you though, teachers don't understand dd at all and therefore I feel I look like I'm lying/exaggerating!
I would (and this is what I'm going to do) just say exactly how your ds is, what you notice, what you think, and what you think of teacher/school.
I'll watch thread eagerly for more constructive/informed advice.

maxy, I wonder if you have considered whether your DS could have high-functtioing autism?
I am not trying to diagnose over the internet, but there a few things that would fit:

• the rigidity with regard to social rules and play
• the academic ability
• advanced espressive language (which is true for my DS, but his understanding, receptive, language is not as good)

I would try to work around teacher at the moment: at worst, you may only have to deal with her for another few months. But I would be pushing for a Psychology assessment.

At 5, CAMHS may be reluctant to diagnose, as my understanding is that social skills/Theory of Mind is not fully mature until 6 typically, so they may adopt a wait and see approach (if they are thinking HFA).

I think you are using his academic progress as a sort of 'marker' for his other issues, ie if the teacher had said 'oh he's brilliant at science' that would make you feel less anxious about how he's doing in school. Can I suggest you park all that for the moment? So take where he is academically out of the equation and just focus on the other issues which I would probably summarise from your post as:

need for control
Lack of social skills
Atypical language development (and history of that)
The EP's report - seems like you feel she 'got' him

I don't know what CAHMS offer so hopefully someone else will be along, but you also need to have an idea of what you want them to do. What do you want out of the meeting? At the end of it, what do you want them to turn around and say? Can CAHMS persue a diagnosis? Is that what you want? Will the teacher be at the meeting? Remember, she'll only be his teacher for another 4 months too. And while you're finding her vague and difficult, she's not blocking your access to support - you have an IEP and you've had EP assessment, other parents have to fight tooth and nail for that due to schools and teachers not seeing the problems. I think the fact you're getting this investigation means she does see something, tbh.

Have you been keeping a diary of DS behaviour/problems? If not, I think you should start.

this is the child that likes to discuss how the earth began and play draughts and chess - and one of his fave TV programmes is essentially anything with Brian Cox

but unless that's on the curriculum, she won't be seeing it, measuring it or caring about it. He's only in reception - it's Biff and Chip and number bonds all the way.

ok sorry. I wasn't very good. Yes I think DS has some sort of HFA. I am normally a TA, worked with children for over 16 years and DH is a teacher, so we are not totally wet behind the ears as it were - though always slightly different when your own child!

He has IEP because of outside professionals already being involved before he even started nursery - think nursery panicked slightly when they realised he had issues and his excellent SALT was on their back about how he was doing - literally he only learnt to say his own name 2 weeks before he started nursery - they ob course had to say about the issues but then had nothing to show how they were helping him. He is also under a paed. The IEP is also naff and latest one his teacher has filled in how the targets have been met (they haven't, she just hasn't bothered to ask us - toilet being one example) I haven't signed this yet as she wanted to add something else and there was no time to go over it at parents evneing so I do want to meet with her anyway and I will say how I am not happy with it.

I understand what you are saying about the academic thing - sorry, I didn't mean it to sound like that's all I was whittering on about it's just the teacher was a bit, "meh, he's fine no problems and a bit thick" now ok she didn't say that but she hinted that he was where she expected him to be as (these were her words) "I have some VERY high fliers in this class"

I have some bits of diary, but yes you're right I should have and will now be more on the ball woth that.

Yes CAMHS can offer a diag. Paed has been reluctant. He finds DS very controlling. DS will now not speak to him at all.

Essentially it is a bit he keeps it all in at school and conforms - he behaves at school classicly ike a girl with AS

It isn't biff chip and number bonds all the way though I don't think at his school. And to be honest, having worked in schools for years, I can still tell you 8 years on what some of the pupils I worked with excelled in - not because it was on the curriculum

she also told me how he had thought the puppet in the life caravan was real. He didn't he doesn't believe in hardly anything - he had already told me he liked it but it isn't real, though it looked quite good.

I disagreed with her and said he wouldn't have thought a puppet was real she said "Oh he SO did"

and wilson - those are his interests, what a shame she can't care about her pupils at all then.

My DH teaches History, yet he can tell me all sorts about some of his pupils - not because he has assessed them or even because it has anything to do with History or in fact school! Anyway.............these are all just a sides, just saying!

and Frazzled - sorry you are still getting nowhere, I know we are lucky DS is already in the system - I wish you the best of luck with it all and know how frustrated you may be feeling.

EP however, cannot make any diagnosis but can only make recommendations re educational needs. Has anyone like this person ever mentioned the word "Statement" to you?. I doubt it from what you've written.

You are your child's best - and only - advocate here.

Many school staff as well are simply not trained enough with regards to recognising additional needs.

I would keep a diary and insist to the GP that your son is referred to a developmental paed asap. CAMHS certainly have their place but ASD is not always the main specialty so may well fudge the issue.

One thing you can do is apply directly to the LEA with a view to obtaining him a Statement (as this is legally binding). Also statements can be used also to address social and communication needs. You need to think longer term, at this stage Junior school. IPSEA's website is helpful with this process and the more info you have the better www.ipsea.org.uk.

I really must not be coming across very well sorry yes a statement has been mentioned and yes I know the EP cannot make a diagnosis!

maxy, you actually sound very on the ball.
I wonder if you are letting your annoyance with the CT get in the way of identifying DS's actual issues? (what Wilson said)

Can you write notes before the assessment Thursday, perhaps under headings e.g. social skills, play skills, interests/obsessions, routines.
There may be other stuff you haven't considered; such as how well his motor skills are developing, his sensory processing, his independence skills (toileting, sleeping, self-calming, feeding etc etc).

Finally, you say he keeps it together at school...so what is he like when he comes home? Are there melt-downs? Can you video it for CAMHS?

He is already under a paed - has been for over 2 years

No not letting it get in the way porridge, honestly. This has only come out really after the parents evening - you would need to meet her I guess. As soon as we sat down she went on about having to hurry up as caretaker would want to go home (we were not late btw) and then her phone rang and she debated answering it s she already had my back up, yes. I think I was concerned with how much she says CAMHS will take on board.

What did they say re a statement?.

Honestly, you'd be better off applying for this yourself because at least you know its been done then. Some schools can sit on such apps for ages.

Yes will write notes and they will have the EP report which is also full of loads of info from us.

He has meltdowns in school too, but I'm not sure how often. He refuses to get changed for PE - she never told me though, he did.

Waiting on what CAMHS also say and then decide what to do re statement.

Yes I need to try and video him..............might have some actually, need to check.

You could well wait an age for CAMHS to tell you anything, they move at the speed of continental drift!.

Would urge you to put in the request for the statement now; you do not need a diagnosis to do this. As you undoubtedly know, these can take a minimum of six months to set up anyway, even if the LEA do agree to make such an assessment.

OK Attila thank you. Even though his teacher is a bit "oh he's fine!!!!!"?

Shall start looking at it.

I think Attila is right (again). Time to move on statement now rather than waiting to persuade someone else of the extent of his difficulties.

I understand about teacher getting your back up, really. But this is not her area of expertise...it's probable possible that you have more SN knowledge than she, given your own background.

I think you've been trying to go through the teacher, as if she's an obstacle on your road.
That's not working.
Now it's time to go round her, by applying for the statement.
TBH I would also be looking at the pead a bit harder too - what is he doing if DS has been seeing him for 2 years?