I've finally got DD2's paed report. It's a bit meh, tbh.

[lougle]

So, the long-awaited paed report has arrived.

Firstly, despite me telephoning to ask that they change her attended school and them confirming that they would do so, it's been sent to old school, not new school .

Secondly, it is fairly accurate but the conclusion is 'not overly worried about her, but would like to keep an eye. Didn't see ASD symptoms, but she is passive and didn't initiate conversation.

The referral to audiology is made but the referral to SALT isn't explicit, although SALT is copied in.

It majors on the clumsiness, etc., when I feel that it is language etc., which shows DD2's biggest issues.

Arrgh..I don't know. I had prepared myself for it to be a bit 'meh' but now it is...am I making a fuss over nothing?

I have a friend (who doesn't know the children) who thinks that I'm seeking a label for comfort, because DD1 was 'tricky' then got a label then as a result we got help and she got a special school place. She is quite anti-labeling, so I can see that this is how it is from her perspective.

I see the situation more as 'the current SEN system deals with individual need by linking groups of children with similar profiles (giving them a label). Then once those linked groups (labeled) of children are established, they list interventions that can resolve or ameliorate the issues presented.'

If, for DD2 to get the help she needs, I have to pursue a label then I'll do one with gusto. To be clear, DD1's 'label' is simply 'MLD plus epilepsy.' The actual details extend far wider, but that is her 'linked group.'

If I could achieve getting DD2's needs met without a label, I'd also do that happily.

In fact, if I could have an hour or two with someone who has the integrity of a SALT like Moondog, to give me the details of how to properly help DD2, I'd be quite happy with that. It won't change the fact that for 30 hours per week DD2 is at school, where they see no issues because everything is 'face-value', though.

Lougle you dont need anyone to tell you your dd2 has a literal understanding of language. You know that already. But an in depth assessment of the functional aspects of her receptive and expressive language is something an expert needs to identify for you, so you can refine the 'scattergun' approach.

"Would be odd to suggest that kidnapping moondog has crossed my mind."

Kidnapping is selfish, zzzzz I'd thought about cloning

Justa and zzz are phrasing things differently, I think their underlying assumptions are the same

1. The main 'help' likely is going to come from you
2. Accurate delineation of the issues is something SLT might help with
3. Schools usually need formal labels, parents often don't
4. Everyone needs accurate information
5. Good professional evaluation is hard to get, but worth it's weight in gold

My very personal view is that those of us with dc in school are a little [jealous] of home educators because they don't need to expend energy on constantly explaining the obvious liason. And sometimes those who HE can misperceive this as in my case very major mild criticism.

[have a RL friend who HE for ages]

I would happily furnish Lougle with our therapist's targets and input if I thought it would help :-) but without assessment you will never be 'convinced'. Part of the assessment process is seeing a therapist really understand your child. It's this that will give you most confidence as a parent, IMO.

Thanks Handywoman

Classic example today. Nanny was here and I said to DD2 "Quickly, DD2, run into the kitchen and surprise Nanny with an extra hug and kiss before she goes!"

DD2 was saying 'which way?' I said 'that way' pointing to the kitchen. She went and stood near Nanny and said 'where?' I said 'there' , pointing to Nanny. She said 'yes, but where should I hide??'

She had heard 'surprise' as 'hide'.

That's how I read it. 'Surprise' to DD2 means leap out from a hiding place and 'surprise' her. Surprising nanny with a hug and kiss was too new a concept and not understood. Too much of a idiom. And she doesn't get it from the context, that another more NT child might. Like when DS2 pointed to a picture of buckets falling off a shelf rather than a picture of a rainy day from the phrase 'We can't go to the park today, it's bucketing down,' when he was 5.

Oh yes, I'd imagine that's the case, completely. They are always hiding to surprise Daddy when he comes in. The thing is, it was an off-the-cuff comment from me. I hadn't given it any thought at all.

Lougle do you think the above is also about language load, or is this not an issue? Is her comprehension generally OK? Or is it just generalising/higher level language? I'm trying to go through my SLT stuff and work out if it's worth sending you what I have. Aged 4.1 dd2 was very generally delayed in comprehension of language (2 word level) as well as 'disordered' (things like 'don't do it down' or 'put me my bready knife' but I am aware your dd2 is older and not necessarily struggling to comprehend on a day-to-day level? Also my dd2's SLT focussed very much on her auditory skills and behaviour as a listener (joint attention skills) and I don't know how much of this applies to your dd2.

forgot to say.... plus of course your dd2 is older...... let me know (feel free to message me if you don't want to elaborate here)

DD2 is 5.7 now. Hmm...

I do think that the meaning gets lost in longer sentences. I think she relies a lot on clues around her for meaning. For example, when we read her school books, she always, always scans the pictures on the page before attempting to read the sentences. I don't know if all children do that, possibly.

Her comprehension is ok if the subject is literal and familiar. If it is out of context, contains words she isn't familiar with, or is abstract she really struggles. She seems to get 'stuck' if she hears a word she doesn't know the meaning of, so instead of just glossing over it as DD3 would and picking up the meaning from the rest of the sentence, she sort of seems to be halted by it.

DD1's carer said that she's never heard a parent explain so much to their children as I do. I didn't know that isn't normal, because DD2 needs it all the time. I just instinctively do it, because without explanation, DD2 won't be able to pick out the meaning.

In terms of 'disordered' language, she has said these things spontaneously (forgive that I've just copied and pasted from another post...it's easiest):

""Solid means ice"
"I am so shopping tired and all that twisting and turning I'm boy oh boy oh tired" (we walked to a shop and back)
"Patch can have tuna because it's strong for him"
"After I finish breakfast could I please not have orange juice."
"I picked up some sticks that had two or three layers and I gived them to some friends that I could see who I can invite to my party if you say so."
"What is making all those pieces of noises?"

Today, she said 'carrots come from bunnies, I think' to my Mum. We had to say 'no, sweetheart, carrots grow in the ground and bunnies like to eat them.' She said 'really??'. It's like she had the concepts mixed up in her mind.

She gets really upset because she hears something, gets the wrong end of the stick. For example, we're getting hens from DD3's preschool, but they only hatched this week. Last week, we told the children we were going to get some hens but they needed to hatch first. DD3 said 'are they here, now?' We explained again, that they were still in the eggs right now. She burst into tears because she thought that we should have them by now and that someone would cook them for breakfast. She's nearly 6

Her reading comprehension is not good, I think. We read 'strawberry jam' and when I asked her what 'jam' is, she said 'it's a glass jar.' She doesn't pick up on the plot of stories unless it's read back to her and you point out key features.

I got the shock of my life when I read one of DD2's school books to DD3. It was about 'too late harry'. It got to a point where Harry had been asked if he wanted to help make a cake and he said 'I'll just go and get my apron...' DD3 said 'but if he goes to do that, he'll miss the cake making!!' I said 'no, darling, he won't. Don't worry...' I turned the page to see 'Too late, Harry!' DD3 had picked up the story line just like that. DD2 would never do that.

Sorry, I'm warbling on.

It does help, PolterGoose! It really does

It's so tangled though. Her focus on hair colour/length/texture, etc....is that a language issue or a conceptual/visual issue? Why is it that she sees people as 'looking like each other' if they have similar hair?

The Mothers' Day thingy is classic DD2. The teacher had obviously said that we would have a Mothers' Day service on Friday. DD2 heard that as it being Mothers' day on Friday. So when I said 'it's Mothers' Day on Sunday' she said 'No Mummy, my school changed it!.'

She got her trouser legs wet and one of the TAs made a comment about them being 'flappy.' DD2 said to me 'Mrs X said today, that my trousers are not real school trousers because they are flappy trousers not normal school trousers.' She was furious with me because I was trying to reassure her that they are normal school trousers, it's just that her legs are quite short for her age, so she might need to pull them up higher.

It does sound (if your dd2 struggles a bit with a higher language load) as if her general receptive language level is low. My dd2 was similar, if we talked about familiar topics she was OK. Then she would encounter an adult (friend of mine, for example) using a more adult language model and talking about less familiar topics then the understanding would be drastically, embarrassingly, awful. Narrative has also been a problem for dd2 (still is, having moved to Key Stage 2) and I would also have to point out key parts of the story. What we did was use a lot of much simpler texts, which were pitched at her language age so at age 4 following SLT assessment we got hold of a whole library's worth of books for 2 years olds (on Freecycle!). 'Spot the Dog' was brilliant, for example. We relied very heavily on books, the key was to forget about the narrative and just talk about what was on the page. Also using family photos and asking dd2 to describe what was happening. She found this incredibly difficult! Also dictating short stories and see if she could recount them. These really helped with expressive language. We also worked lots and lots on eye contact and auditory discrimination, there is a game like 'sound bingo' where you have pictures of every day scenarios which you have to match with every day sounds.

It sounds as though you are supporting her understanding and encouraging her to interact, understand and communicate all the time. It just needs a bit of structure and to take it back to a more precise and earlier language level. Like all good teaching, first and foremost it needs to be pitched at the right level (hence me banging on about in-depth assessment). I hope this was helpful in a tiny way.

should add the bingo game you can buy in the internet

I did wonder if DD2 has some face-blindness, or whether it's sensory issues...but I remember picking her up from her old school with a friend of mine. She came out of the classroom and didn't acknowledge the friend at all. Then I said 'look DD2, it's X' she just looked at her, blankly, then looked away. She's not unfriendly, so I still can't fathom what was happening.

Having said that...she did the same to a lady we know, again when she was at the old school. We saw her again this week and she was very polite and engaged. Perhaps she was just struggling so much at the old school that she was shut down a bit...

Nothing's simple

You're right there.

Play in our house is such a repetitive lovely thing. DD1 has been doing fairy tales at school this term. Three little pigs. Since 06.05 all I have heard is 'I'm going to get you!' 'Help! Help!' 'Got you!' 'Your turn'.