to lodge a complaint - is it worth it???

[bjkmummy]

its been a hell of year and after coming out of and winning a tribunal, i have changed from the experience.

my eyes have been opened to just how low LA will go and the dirty game playing that goes on whilst my 9 year old was allowed to hit rock bottom with no education.

the tribunal process with the lies, changing of doucments, sneaking off to email the tribunal and telling complete untruths about us and the list goes on and on. at meetings the LA officers would literally hiss at us and it was clear they had absolute contempt for us, they would not respond to any correspondence at all from us and we were met with a wall of silence.

the tribunal itself was a nightmare as the game playing continued in the middle of the tribunal itself. thankfully the tribunal saw through it all and we won - that in itself must have absolutely choked the officers involved.

my MP has been watching from the sidelines since the beginning and we found out later that behind the scenes he had been speaking to the head of education at the council about what was going on. when we won the tribunal i emailed him and let him know what had happened. i got an email back to let me know that he was now aware.

yesterday i got a call from the independent school, the LA giving them grief about getting my son back into school which is laughable as they have not cared one jot over the last year hence the need to go to tribunal.

then later i got a call from the LA officer, the same one who has hissed at us in meeting and been absolutely horrible to us. she was a completely different person yesterday, she was like my bessie mate and could not do enough for us and the concern she showed my son was actually now quite laughable!!

all the way through the last year the thing that has kept me and my husband going has been the complaint at the end we would lodge. we havent done it yet as we want to get him into school first. so why after the phone call yesterday do i now find myself sat here doubting about whether i shoudl complain? why i have allowed myself to be taken in by a 'nice' phonecall? maybe parts of me wants the nastiness to stop and us to all to work together but thats all i have asked for over the last year but they were unwilling to listen, its taken a tribunal for them to see sense.

so will complaining be worth it? know it will probably be good for my soul but then i guess its the long term impact. i dont want an apology for me, i want one for my son and for no more families to have to go what we have been through. know unlikely that i can singlehandly change the system but them feel if i dont complain when will their behaviour stop?

I don't know if the stress is worth it to be honest, the system is unjust and most of us have come to that conclusion so it would seem but if those of us able to complain don't then what hope is there for change?

Good luck with whatever you decide and nice or nasty it seems perfectly reasonable for you to express your views and recount those times when you have experienced foul play if you choose to do so.

I think it depends on whether you could do a straight forward bullet pointed, specific example letter that eg a complete stranger could follow, or if it would be a rambling 'you're all bastards' type letter you will only feel better if you get a decent response.

If you have the energy left after everything you've been through then consider complaining to stop another family going through this, but only if you feel like you are up for it.

well there are so many complaints!! my plan was to do each complaint seperately as there are so many and attach to each complaint the evidence to back up my complaint. i did everything over the last year in writing so have concrete evidence of every single complaint i want to make. sadly i have learnt the hard way that you need to be able to evidence everything

Not on the same scale as you but when I moved Dd3 to her lovely new school and realised how badly she had been treated at her old school I was so upset that I decided to complain. I wrote a couple of letters but didnt really get anywhere.

Then I bumped into a TA who used to work at the old school and had left because of the way the children with SN were treated.

She said to me, that I should just walk away and save my energy and use it for my Dd and that the HT was so adept at sidestepping complaints that I would go through a lot of stress for nothing.

I decided she was probably right and I put it to bed. Dd3 is happy, we are happy and life is a lot less stressful.

Of course it is up to you what you decide and I wish you good luck whatever happens but you have been through so much already I think you deserve a break.

Good luck

i think i do have the energy. the only thing holding me back is that where i live is so small and everyone knows each other and is interlinked so a complaint about one person and you are inadvertently upsetting their clique of friends but think ive already upset most of them already!

as i have evidence to back up each complaint it also shows that im not being petty. one of the ocmplaints relates to how reports were deliberatly altered so i had one version sent to me and another sent to the tribunal/LA so some quite substantial allegations which I think if proved will mean some staff are on very dodgy ground. Also how we were lied to in meetings - again all documented and then the tribunal order where they have to then tell the truth. then theres all the usual stuff of them never answering emails etc etc

It's because you want to believe that the stress is over and you want to put it all behind you, and given that they are being nice now, that might be possible.

Opening complaint proceedings means you have to relive the hell of the past couple of years.

If there is any way you can complain and it be alright for you and your family, I would do it though. Distance yourself and treat it as a hobby if you like, and absolutely don't expect to 'win' anything. The response to the complaint and arse covering has the potential to make you angrier and angrier if you don't mange your emotions carefully. It may end up looking like you have achieved nothing.

However, the reason I would encourage complaining is that whilst you might not 'get' anything and it will look like they are getting away with things, internally it will cause meyhem. And that meyhem, just might chip away at the crapness of it all and effect change/improvements. Especially if others are doing it too.

I have pursued complaints all the way down the wire - to judicial review of the oversight bodies.

It is stressful and the oversight bodies like the LGO frankly don't give a crap how LAs behave and will find one tiny example of maladministration if you push hard enough to try and get rid of you.

This is why LAs get away with it. No one cares and no one will do anything. Local councillors are deeply ineffective in this area and don't seem to care that their administration hands out money in maladministration.

But, I take the view, it is stress but if you can stand it, what choice do we have but to complain? They rely on people walking away.

But the stress can be worse than tribunal so be warned

i am going to complain after a lot of thinking this morning and the reason why is that 2 years ago i went through hell with my older son and ended up down the judical review route. the LA/school backed down and the LA did apologise to me in a meeting - atthat time i was guns ablazing to complain but after i got the apology and also because i did want to work with them and had hoped things would change. however that was not to be the case. the person who made the apology then left and has been replaced by the woman who phoned me the other day. this woman has been really supportive to other families but with me she has been just awful and i think that stems from the sen officer beneath her as it was her mistakes that led to judical review. it has been the same womans mistakes again that led us down the tribunal route with our younger son. it is clear therefore that no lessons were learnt two years ago and if anything things were made much much worse for us.

had the statement this morning from the LA that has been issued post tribunal - mainly looks okay but there is no page with the appendices on., this is relevant as i had to argue like a tiger to get them to agree to put the report on the appendices and the statement makes reference to the appendices. i know they will think im nit picking but theres 5 professional reports which have now been appended post tribunal so important that this statement is as it should be - made me laugh when it said if i didnt agree i had the right to appeal

There's the sh*t sandwich approach to complaints:

This tiny thing was good
This massively bad thing was so very poor that you're very fortunate we cba to sue you (cc the legal dept and whoever takes oversight of avoiding payouts)
And the phonecall was perfect and is exactly the approach we were fighting for, ta.

This approach bypasses the frustrating crap of awaiting the outcome of their backside-covering non-apology passive-aggressive we're-always-right customer-focussed complaint resolution policy but still puts your points on someone important's desk.

thanks inappropriate for the warning re the stress. i dont think i can just walk away especially when i sit and listen to other people in my area being walked upon but they do not have the strength to stand up and complain. i am now happy as my elder son is settled and happy in his special school, my younger son is about to start at the most amazing independent asd school so all is good there and my daughter has now also just changed schools to an amazing school as well so there is lots of calm and peace all round for all of my children now and i am in a good place. i will treat the complaint as a job, i have no real expectations as to what will happen, i will probably live up to their view of me that i am a complainer but what happened to us was truly shocking and if i cannot stand up and say what you did was wrong then i have no doubt that someone not as knowledgeable as me will have to go through this again.

i think i feel stronger now because i did stand up and fight them at tribunal with no legal representation. the judgement was pretty shocking about the actions of the LA and i have made sure i have covered everything in writing so it is going to be very difficult for them to argue against my complaint. i will start the complaint process tomorrow as will take a while to put together. my husband is adamant that we complain but of course he will leave all of the hard work to me !!!!!

I always 'promised' my LA that once my DS had secured a suitable placement that I would initiate a formal complaint about the way they had behaved. And I did.

You need to understand that you'll have to exhaust your local authority's complaints procedure before you can refer the matter to the LGO.

All in all you're probably looking at 2-3 years before the matter is finally closed (that was my experience).

You'll need to listen to another load of LA lies and finger-pointing as they try to worm their way out of the problem. They will never admit in wroting that they were wrong. The only way I received an apolgy from my LA was when the LGO ordered them to make one in writing to me.

You'll need to go through the council's 3 stage complaints procedure during which they'll ask you what your required remedy is. So what do you want?

The LGO awarded me an apology and £250 for my troubles. It barely covered the paper, postage and ink cartridges used in extensive comms with them over the years. So definitely not worth doing financially.

As Star said the best way is to treat it as a hobby. But it wil make you angry and frustrated. Don't expect much from the LGO as they have their tongues firmly implanted in the LA's bottom.

Having said all that I found it cathartic - probably because I won my case. I may have felt differently had I lost. I felt vindicated and was very pleased to see the amount of effort the LA was forced to put into defending themselves.

Ultimately the only penalty the LA sufferd was a little black mark in their statistics.

Once I had won the LGO complaint the LA caved in and admitted educational negligence in the legal action I had running in parallel with the LGO complaint - coincidence?

If you have hard evidence that allows you to prove that the LA's heel-dragging caused your son actual damage then I would suggest going straight down the legal route rather than wasting years on this Mickey Mouse process that passes for an LGO complaints procedure.

i want an apology for my son and the LA to accept that their behaviour was not acceptable and bordered on illegallity and that at no point did they ever have my sons interests at heart or any concern that he has been left without any education for a year and that their actions have caused significant stress on my son. sorry thats a bit long winded - i just want an apology for my son and a faint hope that before they screw the next person over they stop and think that their could be consequences to their actions

I was just thinking that the time involved to complain may be what puts us off. Could there be a complaint template drawn up by a clever Mumsnetter that would make lives easier? And if there was a way of sharing outcomes in an anonymous way then we would be able to look for themes and inconsistent responses perhaps linked to geographical area or local authority?

i want an apology for my son and the LA to accept that their behaviour was not acceptable and bordered on illegallity

You won't get that outcome. They only ever apologise when the LGO orders them to do so. An apology means they would be acknowleding wrong-doing, in which case it would leave them open to a legal remedy - so they won't apologise willingly.

So you'd need to exhaust the LA's own complaints procedure before you can elevate it to the LGO and hope the LGO orders an apology.

If your son had no education for a year it should be possible to quantify the effect (damage) socially and educationally and to persue a claim for educational negligence. That's where I would concentrate my efforts. You could come out of that sort of action with a few £10Ks in put in a trust fund for him.

2tired2fight

Every LA has it's own formal complaints procedure. Ours is 3 stage i.e.

Stage One

Complaint usually gets investigated by the person about whom you are complaining. They obviously find their own actions to have been faultless and they fail to uphold your complaint. You disagree and move on to

Stage Two
Complaint is usually reinvestigated by the line manager of the person you're complaining about and under whose management and direction the actions were taken. They obviously find their employee's actions to have been faultless and they fail to uphold your complaint. You disagree and move on to

Stage Three

Complaint is heard by a Panel of Councillors. You and the Education Service are invited to give oral evidence. Shortly before the hearing you get a phone call asking what you want (how can they buy you off?). I asked for an apology and acknowledgement of wrongdoing - refused. Panel meets - hears evidence - find the council employees behaviour to have been faultness and they fail to uphold your complaint. You disagree and having exhausted the LA's own complaints procedure you are now free to take your complaint to the LGO.

LGO
Fill in form to initiate complaint. LGO decides if there is a case for maladministration. If so they investigate. LGO asks LA to answer your complaint. LA supplies LGO with a pack of lies which the LGO accepts and asks you if they can close the case. You object and respond showing where LA has lied etc and ask for a review.

LGO Review
Complaint is reviewed by LGO. LA is asked to answer your response to their response to the complaint. LGO then makes decision whether or not to uphold your complaint. LGO decides what remedy is appropriate.

In my case - LGO orders LA to apologise which they do so grudgingly it's cringe-worthy i.e. "the LGO has requested that we apologise......." Recieve cheque for £250 which I photo and frame before encashing.

3 years of my life that I'll never get back.

Still want the hassle?

What a perfect summary of the complaints process.

I would add in my case:

LGO first provisional decision - no maladministration. LA are perfect. I am a premature time waster.

LGO Review - same person reviews her own decision and finds she did nothing wrong. Issues second provisional view. I ask for a review.

LGO Review - I send supporting evidence from my MP, a leading SEN charity and lawyer. Another person deals with the review. Reviews her colleague's decision and issues third provisional decision with recommendation of maladministration and compensation of £250 - something that could have been found in first provisional view. I challenge the legal aspect of it.

LGO Final Decision - same old crap plus some nasty personal comments about me in the covering letter

Pre-action protocol letter - letter drawn up by solicitor challenges legal basis of finding. LGO withdraw their final decision.

Second final decision - 6 months later they issue a second final decision which is basically the same as the first save for a few gems like cutting and pasting half a sentence from my MPs letter to use against me!

Legal aid - legal aid is now being applied for in DS's name to challenge the decision on the basis it is wrong in law.

Anyone else with similar problems with the LGO on a failing to arrange provision waive your hands as solicitor is looking to show the scope of the problem.

This stuff is not for the faint hearted that is for sure!

you can understand why people do not complain but what uis the alternative if everyone just walks away and accepts that this is how things are meant to be. i may not change anything but at least i can say that i stood up and said what they did was wrong. i know i will always regret it if i dont complain even though i know also that it will be an incredibly frustrating experience. even if it just makes the officers involved squirm slightly and put them under some pressure to answer for their actions then i think it will be worth it.

Well it can be stressful but I agree that if you're up to it then it might make them think about how they treat other families next time .
I took a LA complaint to level 2 which was partially upheld and an apology supplied so left it at that. A complaint to school though has had them stating that I have been acting in a 'threatening' manner by asking certain difficult questions and in turn they have threatened legal action for slander if I discuss a certain issue with anyone else. I feel I want to take this further but they have been so nasty who knows what they will do to cover their backsides. Or maybe that think that being that way will stop any further potential difficult issues for them. I don't know what to do and legal advice isn't exactly cheap.

you can understand why people do not complain but what uis the alternative

Initiate a claim for educational negligence.

Do it. Your story needs to be told and come out in the open. Expose the unscrupulous LA. Expose the lot of them.

Do it. Don't let the LA get away with it.

Educational negligence is exceptionally hard to establish and there is very limited scope save in the most obvious of cases - I have written a chapter on this in a text book (coughs importantly).

Jessie -this seems to me to be an increasingly common tactic to shut up parents asking questions about provision that schools etc can't/won't answer. The use of a 'vexatious' ban is the same thing as are allegations to social services. it is really nasty stuff

We should pool our resources on this. I don't have time at the moment but may soon be able to look at it.