Shock Newsflash - Govt to consider using evidence in making decisions

[AgnesDiPesto]

Independent article here

Early intervention is stated to be one area targeted.

Perhaps this is an opportunity to preach to Mr Alexander about ABA / early intervention - not just for ASD but for behavioural difficulties generally??? Or at least get rid of the caring carrots.

"Writing ahead of the launch, Mr Alexander said Nice pioneered the use of solid evidence in making decisions and its success could be replicated elsewhere.

"In deciding whether a treatment should be made available, Nice is required to consider whether it delivers good value for money and helps the NHS meet its goals for delivering high quality care," he said.

"For patients, it means that when their doctor prescribes them a drug or a treatment, they know that the decision has been informed by the best possible evidence.

"However, we need to go much further by expanding the amount of evidence we collect and use to make sure that public services can draw upon a wide-ranging evidence base.

"At a time when the public finances are stretched and more savings will be required across government, it is more important than ever that public money is invested smartly on services that deliver the best results and real value for money for the taxpayer."

Hmmm so why did no-one think of this before.....

Blimey - what a novel idea? No wonder he gets paid so much.

Sounds wonderful.

Unfortunately, my money's on them using that as an excuse to pretty much cut all services that don't deliver miracle cures. SALT and OT are already well on their way to being privatised up here, which means the emphasis will be on cheap and even more scarce than before, rather than effective.

Yes. I envisage a scenario where they say that evidence shows that children with ASD aren't worth teaching at all, except the ones that manage in a mainstream classroom without support.

They have already demonstrated that TAs make no difference so rather than skill up TA's they are cutting them.

BUT, I still think the move paves the way for more positive steps.

Yes the invest more money early to save money later is not going to work against a background of immediate cuts

The NHS speech therapist told our Tribunal Panel last week that although the NHS has no financial constraints whatsoever, they decide each case on an individual basis and that the decision not to offer any SALT to ds was made solely on clinical grounds - so on that basis think Ouryve is right and that we will see more and more withdrawn on this basis.

Might I suggest a field trip to a remote little town in Romania

Who gathers the data? Management grades always put all their efforts into protecting their own jobs, so this really needs independent people to gather the evidence if it's to have a cat in hells chance of working. A massive cultural change is needed within the UK SN industry at all levels public and private and it'll take a sea change to alter some of the entrenched attitudes that were actively encouraged by the last administration.

I've become increasingly aware recently that the "ABA movement" as a whole hasn't really done as much as it could to make itself LA friendly having come across a few highly regarded players who have a bit of a sneery, sneery attitude to the state sector. Not helpful when dealing with well-meaning individuals who do care within the state sector, but suffer huge constraints even when they want to make changes. I just think some (not all) ABA purists need to seriously reconsider their sales patter.

What I'm really hoping for is more parental choice over TA recruitment and direct payments in high enough amounts to buy in services such as SALT & OT. I also want to see academies/free schools SN admissions, discipline and general SN policies looked at as a matter of urgency.

I agree with everything you have said Boch. There are moves within ABA circles to make it more mainstream and friendly, and there are some good people involved. However there is a concern that some players are doing considerably well out of it being an 'underground' movement and unsurprisingly they have got themselves in positions of power in the change programme. Having said that, the change programme is happening and there are some people with integrity involved.

My ideal underpaid, thankless, frustrating job would be to work with LAs in children's services to help them compete with the independent sector by becoming more efficient, offering services that actually DO something. I'll start with Herts!

I'm getting fed up of these trolls on the SN section....evidence being used by the Government indeed

We all know that if the evidence results in a need for more resources, they'll find a way to manipulate it.

What's the quote?

"Lies, damned lies and statistics."

I'm with lougle

Occasionally, when I'm cobbling together references for various SN subjects, DH says 'you could make a living out of that'.

I have a nano-second of 'ooh yeah..' then, I think 'no way, I couldn't charge people who need help for their children...'

It's awful to think that we are somebody's 'bread and butter'

Isn't it sad how cynical we've all become?

Nowadays I'm furious that the few really helpful professionals I've come across have to spend 80% of their time in meetings about meetings, or writing carefully worded (less clarity give rise to a request for help!) reports that noone reads instead of doing what they spent years training to do - e.g helping kids!

But Lougle et al, do you not consider an opportunity in the biggest spend in the SN Industry?

More and more money goes on the justification and defense of certain state sector jobs, and on the keeping built the empires they run. That is where Mr Small makes his money and there is more money to be made I'm sure.

Can you/we/someone for goodness sake, sell a service to these frightened, ignorant rabbits that enables them to justify their positions and demonstrate effectiveness. Course, it'll mean some of them having to work harder, and others to give up the status quo, and some probably choosing to retire early. But the Gov's agenda is to prove them all crap and bring in private provision where they have been found wanting. They MIGHT just be willing to stop putting money into legal firms to fight for their jobs and put some into actual retraining and demonstrating their efficacy and properly compete for their share of the market. Let's face it, the competition won't be much to start with.

The time isn't now though. Just read Working's post. But I reckon it is coming, round about, say when baby ds starts school full-time

I'm not a troll!

That's what they all say.........

Yeah, yeah, you'll start saying 'been here ages, red carpet, pombears..' but we smell troll from 100 paces.

Star, in essence, nice thought but the fundamental issue is that these people believe that their provision is adequate and poor progress is just the nature of SN.

This magnificent book woke me from my slumber

And another

You are so right Star. These people I link to are the true messengers and prophets of ABA and what it can do for all children-not just those whose parents have the nouse or £££ to get them onto home programmes-the content of which is rarely transferred to a real classroom situation.

Thing is TEACHH as practiced in mainstream UK state schools is nothing like what a proper programme would look like. I was quite shocked at how determined to make people as independent as possible the genuine US article is (as opposed to the horrid mantra of "accept your child's limitations and his guaranteed future as a social care dependent" that we get shoved down our throats in the UK).

I just wonder how mangled ABA would become as a methodology would become in the current mandarin's hands iykwim. By the time it had been "adapted" for general mainstream it will probably bear no relationship at all to what we now consider to be ABA. Not without that sea change in cultural attitudes first methinks.

I worked on the adult personalisation programme introducing direct payments for a large charity and found what some councils did with that a bit scary. Others were fantastic to be fair, but the postcode lottery increased not decreased overall for adult social care.

I don't understand the generalisations about TEACCH, either. DD1's school is all about independence.

They've just taken delivery of an eye-gaze device, so children with limited physical function can communicate independently.

DD1's targets are all formed with independence in mind.

Any system can be done badly.

Bochead, a fair point.
All good ideas degenerate and become consumed by aministrators and those who seek to further thier own careers at the expense of all other. The UK society for ABA is going to be launched later this month.
Be part of the revolution

I think the success or not of the ABA thing hinges on the 'measurement' element. If that goes, we're stuffed. If it remains then even less than perfect ABA is a very good start.