Statement, exclusion and ?new school

[Oneforward2back]

Hi I'm new here and have been reading your threads, I'm hoping you may share your wisdom with me. Sorry if this is in the wrong place. My ds is 12 and had ADHD and ?ODD which he takes medication for. He has a sen which entitles him to one to one support all day as he has quite significant behavioural problems. Everything was progressing well in school until he moved to a secondary in September and it has since deteriorated rapidly. The school suspended him for a week following a physical assault on a member of staff last week and after a meeting with the senco and deputy head I've been informed that they are suggesting a managed move. They have discussed this with the lea and until they can agree where he will be moved to he is unable to return to his present school.i.m really concerned about how his education needs will be met as the school feel that moving to a different ms school would only result in the same issues yet there is no ss in the area to meet his needs (he is very bright and therefore not really suited to the ss which caters for ld) I really don't know where to go from here, have been told the the lea will not pay for him to go out of county. I'm so worried about his future and upset that I've fought to keep him in ms for so long, and him make so much progress and now be back to where we were nearly six years ago. Sorry for such a long post and many thanks for any advice

Welcome .

Firstly, the LA don't get to choose if they pay for out of county. If they don't have a school that will meet your Child's needs, then they have to pay-tough luck.

That was the good news.

The bad news is that to get to that point, you might have to take the LA to tribunal.

Hi one and welcome to the board.

Sadly this is becoming more common with out high functioning children and it is very difficult to find the right setting for them.

I agree with what lougle said. On a slightly brighter note it does seem that more people are winning their tribunals or that the LA's are caving before they get to that point.

Good luck and keep coming on here for support and advice

What the others said.

Also there are now 3 online homeschools in the UK that follow the National Curriculum. I've done a little research and these 2 might be suitable for a term or two to help him stay up to date academically while you wait for an out of county placement (Tribunals can take time).

www.interhigh.co.uk/ (used to working with LA's and a range of SN's)
www.briteschool.co.uk/ (covers year 5&6 as well as secondary and is a little smaller depending on his current NC levels).

They might do as a stop gap.

Do take a long look at the info available on the IPSEA website, for some intial guidance on how to fight for your child's needs. Your child is entitled to an out of county placement and the LA are just trying it on. Good luck!

Look at ipsea page on exclusions and what the LA must do eg they should provide home tutor or may offer pru until a new school is found. They cannot just expect you to do it. I would get LA to send you a list of all special schools state and indep and see what's around. If there really is nothing then you may have to look at weekly residential. The LA will want the cheapest option but there will be alternatives.
You can also appeal the exclusion and ask for a sen expert to advise now as part of the new appeals code - look at ipsea again.

You do have to agree to a managed move and so therefore can have input into the process. Don't let them just state that your ds will be going to such and such school if you don't feel it will meet his needs.
You can also request an interim statement review if you feel that it is required.
My ds is bright and not suited to most ss's so he is now attending a specialist out of county placement. I didn't need to go to tribunal as the LA knew full well that they had no suitable alternatives. They did try suggesting EBD placements which I quickly discounted and tbh I think they expected me to reject these.
If my ds had gone to a ms school he wouldn't have lasted long before being excluded as most schools in my area expect high standards of behaviour and won't put up with what they perceive to be bad behaviour whether it's due to a disability or not.
Just be firm that you won't be sending him to another school like his current one where his needs won't be met. Good luck.

I suspect they are saying managed move so a permanent exclusion does not go down on your son's record. If a permanent exclusion then the LA is obliged to find alternative education within 5 school days probably at a PRU. Has the school given you a contact at the LA to deal with the managed move? My son still junior age is currently at a PRU following permanent exclusion. We are trying to get a statement for him as like you feel that just going to another mainstream school will result in the same problems. If you already have a statement then perhaps you need to ask for an emergency review as the support currently offered was clearly not sufficient to meet your sons needs.

But surely if the OPs son is not allowed back into school after his fixed term exclusion, then that is still classed as an exclusion (although not a legal one). They are obliged to follow the regulations relating to exclusions which exceed 5 days in length ie Education provided in a PRU or home tutor.

It sounds as though they also need to get an Ed Psych assessment and report to assess his needs again so that a suitable placement can be identified. Just moving him to another MS school without identifying how his needs can be met is just delaying the inevitable.

Government guidance on exclusions states:
For the first 5 days of exclusion:
38. During this period the school should set work for the pupil to complete and for it to be marked, unless the school has made arrangements, on a voluntary basis, for suitable full-time provision for the pupil to commence earlier than the sixth day. A head teacher considering whether to exclude a pupil for a period which will mean there is a duty to provide suitable full-time educational provision should plan:
a. to make suitable full-time provision available to the pupil from the sixth school day of any period of fixed period exclusion of six school days or longer, and if he or she wishes, make provision available to the pupil at an earlier day than the sixth school day. Provision should normally be off-site, but a school may make provision on-site where arrangements for shared on-site provision have been made jointly with the governing body of at least one other school and is available to excluded pupils from that or those other schools (please see separate guidance on implementation/good practice on TeacherNet). Such provision does not have to be made for pupils in the final year of compulsory education who have already taken (or missed) their public examinations.For a pupil with a statement of special educational needs, suitable full-time provision must be consistent with what is specified in the statement;
Therefore, if the LA want to place your ds in a PRU it has to be able to meet his needs.
The LA offered my ds a place at a PRU even though he had been on a 'course' at one and all staff agreed that it was the wrong place for him! They told me that all excluded children in the county went there.I reminded them of the government guidance and was then told that I 'didn't have to send him there' but no alternative was offered. We did get a placement sorted quite quickly after that.
The school cannot exclude for 5 days and then extend it - this is illegal as someone has already said. Contact the LA Exclusion Manager but don't get fobbed off by them. They usually back down fairly quickly when they meet a parent who knows their rights and won't go along with illegal shenanigans.

Thanks for all your advice. I think my first step will be to contact the LA on Monday and find out exactly what they are planning to offer ds as as it stands I have no idea how long this exclusion is to last and nothing in writing regarding it. The school did say the LA will be having a meeting next week to discuss so may find out early the following week when he will be back in education. they also said they didn't think the PRU would be suitable for him. I will also start looking into out of county schools but would like to avoid residential if possible. There used to be a local independent residential school but it closed and to be honest from some of he ex staff it was more like a children's home for behaviourally challenged and I mean no disrespect but I don't think that type of setting would be beneficial either. I sound so picky don't I, sorry :( How do I go about getting a statement review and ed psych review. Ds as far as I'm aware has not seen an ed psych since year 2 so that may be useful. Thanks again all it's so good to know you are not the only one trying to deal with this sort of thing.

oneforward I would ring the school on Monday and ask them to contact the Ed Psych. It is in their best interests to do so asap, especially as your DS appears to be illegally excluded at present and they don't think their school in the right place for him. It will be difficult to review the statement until you have the EP report.

Thank you I'll do that. I'm feeling much more positive already, I function so much better once I have a plan :)

my head organised the interim review and as part of that review the EP saw my son. it took 6 weeks to arrange the interim review so its not a quick process and then even longer for the LA to even do anything

Oh dear that's a long time to wait! Will they place him back in education before this is done? I was hoping to have him back in a school well before this as its will become difficult to arrange care for him through the day as unfortunately I have to work. As an aside I have seen a school that I think would meet his needs, excellent ofsted report and is only a 40min commute into the next county......the downside is its a private school, out of county and the day pupil fees are nearly £100,000 per year...gulp. I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell of that being funded and unless I win the lottery tonight no way I could fund it either :(

I don't have any advice but wanted to say good luck and I hope you manage to get this sorted

Oneforward, you definitely don't have to wait six weeks. Your son is entitled to full time education now, plus all the support that is in his statement. Unless they tell you on Monday that they are going to organise that, I suggest you contact a lawyer. You need one that specialises in education law and offers legal aid, because you could if necessary take court action in your son's name. This is a good starting point - www.chambersandpartners.com/UK/Editorial/72731

If your child has not been formally excluded and school has not given you a letter to say this then perhaps you should tell them you will be bringing him in as usual and going back to work

I agree make it absolutely clear you are not taking responsibility for your son during the day as you have to work (and he is not ill). The LA will either have to offer education placement as emergency, PRU or provide sitter (via social care) and work to do at home, or could for eg let him continue attending his current school with 2:1 out of class etc while they find a suitable placement. Too often they expect parents to just quit work and take the child home

Ring the indep school Monday and ask if they have a place / can do an assessment

Tell the LA firmly having him home for more than a day or two is not an option and you want an emergency placement and you can suggest the indep placement. An emergency placement should trigger a reassessment of the statement but he can go to a SS while the reassessment is taking place. Follow up in writing so you have an audit trail of how long it is all taking.

Quote the SENCOP if necessary to show you know your rights.

See SEN Code of Practice:
Assessment and emergency placements
8:23 In exceptional cases it may be necessary to make an emergency placement for a child,
for example where:
a the child?s medical circumstances have changed suddenly, causing a rapid and serious deterioration in the child?s health or development
b the parents, school, relevant professionals and the LEA agree that a sudden and serious deterioration in the child?s behaviour make the child?s current placement untenable or unsafe
c where a child arriving unexpectedly in the LEA exhibits such significant learning difficulties as would normally warrant a statement; the LEA should consult the parents and those immediately concerned, including the previous LEA, about the most appropriate placement
d where a young person returns home from a secure unit or young offender institution.
8:24 An emergency placement should only be made when the LEA, parents, school and relevant professionals are all agreed that the child?s needs are such that action must be taken immediately and an emergency placement is the best way forward.
8:25 When an emergency placement is made, the LEA should immediately initiate a statutory assessment or reassessment. It is likely that the assessment will conclude that a statement should be made, or amendments made to an existing statement. If the child has been placed and will remain in a special school, a statement should always be made. The circumstances in which a child without a statement can be placed in a special school are discussed at 7:30 ? 33.
8:26 If, however, the assessment concludes that a statement is not necessary, the child?s emergency placement should be reconsidered. Decisions about how the child?s needs should be best met in the longer term should not be prejudiced by the nature of the emergency placement. If a child without a statement has been placed in a special school for an assessment but it is decided that no statement is necessary, the child can only remain in the school for 10 school days after the LEA has notified the parent that they do not intend to make a statement.
8:27 Statements drawn up or amended following an emergency placement should include detailed objectives with clearly specified review arrangements to monitor the efficacy of the provision made for the child. Whilst the LEA has a duty to review the statement on an annual basis, they may wish to use their powers to review more frequently and to ask for interim reports on the child?s progress.
8:28 Where a social services department makes an emergency placement out of their own budget for a child with a statement of SEN, they should immediately inform the LEA, especially where the placement is in an independent school.

Thanks all. The school told me the reason he can't go back in the interim is that if there was another incident it would lead to permanent exclusion and that would disadvantage him getting into another school. Think that may rule out just taking him back there in the morning tho I agree they could have kept him out of lessons with 2:1 support but that was never suggested. Will be on the phone to the LA first thing. The more I find out about what should be offered the crosser I'm getting with how they are treating us! If I ask the school for this extension of exclusion in writing will they have to provide it seeing as it appears to be an illegal exclusion?

It is illegal to give an exclusion without an end date if not permenant and you should be notified in writing within 24 hours of all the details of the exclusion including the return date!

I think that is an excuse because the school is responsible for yours after they exclude e.g. might have to pay the PRU place out of their budget. I think this managed move stuff is becoming a classic way of getting rid of kids without going through the proper process. Exclusions also show up on the school and LA statistics which are published so they try and get rid of children quietly.

see this newspaper article.

They cannot pressure you to do a managed move / keep child at home. If you want the indep placement then I would be tempted to insist the school either take your child back or permanently exclude. If they exclude you then have a better case for the indep placement / reassessment. A managed move to another mainstream school is just moving the problem on, not solving it.

Tell the LA what has happened and ask for an emergency review of the statement

I think the school are scaremongering for their own agenda, not because that is what is best for your child. If your child needs a specialist placement a permanent exclusion will be a help not a negative. It is evidence mainstream is not the right setting. I also can't see it would make any difference to what other mainstream schools will take him as the LA will just find a place at an undersubscribed school and tell the school to take your child whether they want to or not. As your child has a statement you have more rights about which placement to name.

Contact IPSEA for advice they have an email and ring back service now.

It is unlawful for the school to tell you your child cannot come into school again without making it a formal exclusion. Informal exclusions - which is what this is - are not allowed.

Agnes is right. They are trying it on.

And having your files full of obvious 'secret off-the -record' exclusions as you fail at a series of unsuitable placements does NOT look good.

Much better to have one official exclusion followed by good progress in the right setting.

Ok so managed to get hold of someone into LA today for all the help that was. Been told they do not fund out of county or independant placements full stop. The ms school with asd unit won't have him as adhd not asd so that rules that out. I have to wait until the inclusion board has met and decided if ds is suitable for complimentary education, if I refuse this then the school will permanently exclude him and we have to take it from there. The reason for them extending his present exclusion is to avoid permanent one as apparently if he has more than two exclusions I will lose the right to choose his school as they can just refuse to have him even if there is a place available. They did say that I should have had a letter about the extension tho which I still haven't received. So in a nutshell I'm no wiser as to when he will return to any form of education as been told his present school are responsible for providing work for him for the first 15 days. :( my plan now is to follow this up with an email and hopefully get them to commit to what they are telling me in writing plus request a statement review (when I mentioned him still getting his statement provision in a PRU was told he didn't have access to the statement at present to confirm this!). I have tried to contact the school for confirmation of exclusion extension in writing but so far they haven't returned my call. I have also requested a call back fromIPSEA on wed. Is there anything else you can think of I should be doing other than contacting solicitor, I'd like to see what IPSEA say first as aware that can be an expensive route and funds are tight. Sorry it's a bit of a thesis and I appreciate the time taken to read and advise.

The www.education.gov.uk/aboutdfe/statutory/g00210521/statutory-guidance-regs-2012 official guidance is not being followed, according to this very recent report. IPSEA have a help sheet on illegal exclusions.

Parent advice, blog post training sessions on the law about exclusions. And you don't need a solicitor to appeal to SEND about disability discrimination.

Is it worth going back to CAMHS for another look at whether he has an ASD alongside the ADHD? There's a lot of overlap, and it's often missed first time.