LEA requesting tribunal for more time to name school - what does this mean?

[KOKOagainandagain]

I have tribunal to appeal parts 2, 3 and 4 at the beginning of May.

Final statement names a m/s middle school that is due for closure in July 2013.

Following request, tribunal ordered the LA to name the school by the end of the month or file objection by 5pm yesterday. LA emailed me (4.45 pm) to say they were posting me a copy of the email submitted to tribunal . Tribunal also ordered without any request that the LA inform them of expert evidence and whether additional assessments are underway (they are not).

When the post arrived this morning I learned that the LA have requested more time because they received the order on the Monday of half-term week and so they can't speak to the head of any proposed school and that they are statutorily obliged to do so before they can name the school in part 4. 1 week longer to provide information about expert evidence and additional assessments. 3 weeks longer to name a school. In other words they do not intend to name the school until 2 weeks before the final deadline and just 6 weeks before the hearing.

How can the LA go to tribunal when they don't know what experts will advise because they haven't carried out assessment yet and how can they argue that a proposed LA school can meet his needs when they can't say what school they propose?

They may have difficulty naming a school for the remainder of this academic year as the upper school with which the middle school is merging has no year 7 this academic year. There are 2 alternative 11-16 high schools the LA could potentially name.

Is this good or can the LA argue its way out of the shit in time to be prepared for the hearing? I have named OOC indi ss so the cost difference is £25-35K (with transport) a year assuming minimal costs in m/s.

I've just worked out that this would be 7 working days before the start of the Easter holidays to organise a visit to the named school by ourselves or experts and submit a report by the final deadline.

Surely to Betsy this will not be allowed (or have I veered into the realms of fantasy)?

You can object with your reasons to tribunal and this will be considered alongside the LA's request.

seems like its all part of the game. my LA named their school choice on the date of final submissions so 4 weeks before tribunal then during the actual tribunal as the head gave her evidence changed completely the placement that was on offer and the tribunal allowed it - if we dont win it will give me grounds to appeal.

you can of course respond back to the tribunal and express your concerns and the time lines involved and then see what the tribunal will do. incidentially my LA got no additional reports at all and when they consulted schools it was on the old statement which we were appealing so completely and utterly inaccurate. its no wonder that a mainstream school said they could meet his needs, dont think the head realised just how complex he was until the morning of the tribunal when it all became crystal clear but she towed the LA line and changed the placement to an asd class with non verbal children.

i feel for you because its just game playing and they forget this is real life for us and the impact their decisions/games have on our children

Thanks wasuup and bjk - I do intend to respond back to tribunal. Do I need to do that today? I have sent an email to my IPSEA case-worker but responses can be rather slow.

bjk - staggering incompetence. You deserve to win. I find it hard to believe that your LA went to tribunal with that. I fear 'rage' at the injustice of it all, especially being unable to attend school, if I do win. It's somehow easier to keep a lid on it during the battle .

My LA's final statement is also crap and is being appealed. Even with a 3 week extension I doubt that the LA would have time to carry out assessment, collate reports and rewrite 2 and 3 in time for it to inform the m/s school as to whether it could meet his needs.

i would respond as soon as you can as they dont really give you a clue as to the timeline for you to respond. my experience was that these things can be looked at rather quickly by the tribunal judges at times. i would deffo respond by the end of monday at the latest.

mine didnt change anything to 'inform' mainstream - just sent the old rubbish statement with nothing in it and the 2 OT reports. this mainstream school went from saying they could meet his needs in the mainstream as they wouldnt have to consider his OT needs as they are 'non - educational' and they were considering expanding their OT equipement and would bear my sons needs in mind when considering what they were doing to a few weeks later at tribunal conceding the OT into part 3 and that this mainstream school would suddenly have suspended OT equipment in place within 6 weeks and had magically found a level 4 OT therapist and that he could have a place in the asd class with non verbal kids - thankfully in previous battles with this head we had it in writing from her that she would not place a verbal child in this class - we were able to read this out and noone from the LA challenged us over it.

i dont want to sound negative as im a great believer in the tribunal system but the game playing is staggering and i think i have definately been changed as a person over all of this hence why if we lose and i think even if we win im out of this county and move across the border.

This is just nonsense. They must have known for weeks if not months that they were going to have to name another school and they seem to be saying that they haven't bothered to look for or consult other schools. They're just trying to take advantage of their own incompetence. Also I suspect that if they really wanted to contact the heads of other schools they could do so, they probably have personal telephone numbers and email addresses.

bjk - how did your LA get away with not naming a school earlier? Did you request tribunal to order them to name a school?

i submitted my tribunal papers and named my choice of school. the LA replied and said they would consider my school as a matter of urgency but held the right to name another school - this was oct 2012. in dec i got a letter with 3 schools they were consulting - mine, another special school and a mainstream school. then mid jan - on the date of last submissions i got a letter saying taht my school has said they could not meet his needs, the special school said no but the mainstream local school said yes so they were naming that as their school choice and that was the first time this school was mentioned offically in the tribunal process.

they thought i would then just go with their school choice as i had no other school at that point. however managed to get an independent school who i hads asked the LA to look at in May 2012 and they had just ignored my rewuest, to come and assess him which they did the following day and then i had an agoinising weekend to wait to see if school would offer a place which they did and then i immeadiately applied to change my parental choice of school which was allowed and the LA well and truly threw all of their toys out of the pram. it wasnt until the final bundle arrived i saw a viscious email the LA had sent to teh tribunal making all kind of accusations about me.

so we went to tribunal with the LA naming a mainstream school and us naming an independent ASD school. Then as the head of LA gave her evidence she suddenly announced that she was now offering this unit placement. she tried to say that we had no knowledge of this unit blah blah blah until i reminded her that it has only been a few months since my elder son left her school and we had first hand experience of this unit that she was trying to tell the tribunal we didnt have. the tribunal then sort of went along with it as they knew we had experience of the placement so could state why it would be unsuitable - my professional witnesses were shocked at the LA behaviour. i just have to try and beleive that the tribunal saw straight through it.

the panel did try and ask the LA EP when the decision re this unit placement had been made and he wouldnt answer the question! he also got the EP to admit that he hadnt seen my son for a year so on paper we still have an amazing strong case but you just never know which way it will go. i think the LA witnesses turned up on the morning realised they were absolutely screwed if they carried on trying to put him in the mainstream so offered the unit placement in the belief the tribunal would go with it. it hasnt been agreed that he needs small class sizes and if the tribunal go with me on that then we should be okay. if he goes to the LA school , he wont be in the unit he will be in the mainstream and teh wording the LA have put forward will allow them to do that

Forgive me if I am being stupid

Did the LA name a school on the final statement?

My LA left part 4 blank in the proposed statement, I named my preferred school, the LA ignored it and produced a final statement with the local m/s named in part 4. Then I appealed parts 2, 3 and 4. The LA grounds for defence for part 4 were based on the claim that m/s could meet his needs and that my choice represented inefficient public expenditure. So far so good but the school closes within weeks of the hearing date and so the LA has to name an alternative.

I can understand that when it comes to the hearing itself that there would be a desire to get it all sorted out on the day and that all sorts of crap are deemed 'good enough'.

I take some comfort from the fact that tribunal appear to be pissed off with the LA at this stage 'no mention of imminent closure ... no further evidence filed' and also going beyond the request and making an additional order re evidence/assessments of its own volition. Is this par for the course?

I seem to remember that you had 3 rulings from the tribunal prior to the hearing?

yes i had 3 tribunal orders which i think i instigated and the tribunal ruled in my favour each time as they were reasonable requests in the LA game. i also had 2 telephone type hearings as well. be prepared for a possible telephone call from the tribunal about 4 weeks before to see where you are at - from that we were ordered to have a telephone conference hearing which was good as you finally got to hear from a judge. again, directions were ordered and it all went in our favour and i was shocked at how poor the LA were. also when i got the final bundle, i got to see what the LA had said in their phone call and was shocked at the blatant lies, think even the tribunal were shocked as the LA were trying to argue for an adjournment and the tribunal next to quotes from the LA had put explanation and question marks which showed they were as fed up with the LA as much as i was.

But all the games now seem a distant memory now that the hearing has taken place. none of the games etc seem to have been mentioned so we continue to wait.

you could i guess try and get your own order to the tribunal to ask them to order the LA to name a school by a specific date so that it gives you chance to check out the school etc - you dont want them to turn up on the day and just announce something like they did to me. the LA were trying to say that their choice was amazing and that i didnt know what this school had to offer so how could i possibly object? they seemed to have completely forgotten that my older son had only left this school 5 months ago so i had complete experience of it as it was horrific and we were able to tell the tribunal this which i think did make them raise an eyebrow. i think if we hadnt have had this previous experience then the tribunal may have had to be adjourned for me to visit and then there would have been the cost of a 2nd hearing which of course no parents can afford. thinking about it now, they were so sneaky and back handed that it beggars belief that they can behave like this