Could do with some advice about secondary schools please. (Special or mainstream?)

[DebbieLovesDallas]

Ok the background is dd1 is almost 10. She was diagnosed with ASD last year and last month with dyslexia. She has a reading, writing and maths age of a 6 year old. Although her development in general is average (according to the most recent Ed Psych report). She is socially awkward especially around other children (although tends to be ok with adults), but does have a couple of friends at school. She is starting to become aware of her "differences" to other children her age, their interests (other girls getting into boy bands and make-up etc). She is quite a capable child, pretty much what you expect from an NT 10 year old child - can make a sandwich, a drink, able to get herself showered and dressed, very sensible and trustworthy, quite independent at home but not so much outside. She goes to a mainstream primary school.

We have just started on the process of getting her a statement, which she will desperately need for secondary school. Her current school are very good at meeting her needs, nurturing her well being etc. We're having a right old mare of a time trying to decide whether she would be better off in a mainstream secondary, mainstream secondary with ASD facilities or a specialised ASD school.

Our first choice was a mainstream secondary which is a very good school but highly academic which dd1 is not. It's also a huge school which would possibly be far too overwhelming for her. Then there is the possible mainstream with ASD facilities (2 of these schools), which would seem the obvious choice, having both the pros of mainstream and the ability to support her ASD. But, both of these schools are very bad for behaviour. One is in one of the worst areas in the city, my DSD's younger sister (so not related to dd1) goes there, and has been bullied beyond belief. The other has an equally bad reputation. Then there is the choice of special school, one which is quite close to home and quite small, but not ASD specialised. The other which is further away and a bigger school (but teaches in very small classes) and is ASD specialised.

Worries are these; If she goes to ordinary mainstream she will flail and get completely lost in the system, she won't get the academic support she needs and also left wide open to bullying because of her learning difficulties. If she goes to the mainstream with ASD facilities she could get in with the wrong crowd, or won't make any friends whatsoever. (She's very much a stick to the rules, never gets in trouble child).

The Ed Psych who saw her last month and diagnosed her dyslexia put me off a special school when she said that "once she goes into the special school system she will forever be labelled as "special needs", and it will hinder her in adulthood, and also leave her self esteem very low as she will ask why didn't you send me to an ordinary school".

We just don't know at all. Obviously her going to special school all depends on if she gets the statement, and of she doesn't well it's out of the question. I'm just at a loss at what will best for her. I think if she went to special school then she could end up doing well academically as the classes will be so small and she will get one to one pretty much all of the time. But what will it do to her self esteem and emotional development? She's pretty much like an NT child with emotional development, so I'm not sure what going to a special school would do to her already fragile self esteem in the pending teenage years. But then it could have the opposite effect, she will be in a school with children who are the same as her (on different levels) and may well feel like she fits right in.

If she goes to mainstream then she's also open to the same self esteem issues but the likelihood of her doing well academically is pretty much non existent. She will also have the added pressure of knowing how different she is to her peers, which is what is going on now in primary school.

I think we're leaning more towards special school, but the words of the Ed Psych keep going around in my head about how she will classed as "special needs" for the rest of her life. (I apologise if I offend anyone by putting that, I don't mean it in a derogatory way, that is what the Ed Psych said, and I know she's talking about the "stigma" that goes hand in hand with having learning difficulties).

Any advice gratefully received as I'm just at a complete loss.

Hi

We are in a similar situation with our 10 year old so I do sympathise.

I think, firstly, it may be worth treating the comments of the EP with a bit of healthy cynicism as they are not likely to encourage you to opt for the most expensive schooling options!

However, that said, I do think it is a case of the right school for your child irrespective of the label.

She sounds quite confident and independent but has academic difficulties and needs social and emotional support.

I think you need to identify the real barriers to her progress at secondary: will they be academic or will they be social communication based?

I think whether she could cope in m/stream will also depend on the school and the statement.

Is there a a mainstream school willing to support a statement and which has experience of these types of difficulties. Will they work with you?

Have you been to see all the options? I think that is really important as you will get a feel for the place and the staff.

Sorry not a great deal of help but I am in a similar situation and it is very hard to look ahead.

We are also in a similar situation. Ds is just 10 and has exactly the same difficulties as your dd, with severe sensonery processing disorder thrown in. We have been told by numerous people (including EP) that although his levels are very low, still a 1b in writing and a spelling age of 5yrs and 10months his levels are too high for a special school and he would never get a place there. Also the special schools we have looked at have told us that if we were even thinking of him doing GCSEs then they weren't the right place for him.

Our local secondary school has 2000 pupils, and considering he is struggling coping with 300, that is also not an option and the EP has also told us that he wouldn't cope in any of the local ms secondary schools!! We have therefore been left with no option but to go to tribunal for independent secondary.

I've just typed a reply on IE's thread which may be of interest. I'll paste it here.

Tricky. There aren't any specialised bases in my LA at secondary, but some schools were so obviously more set up for (and willing to have) DC with SN. I had a hard choice of 3 in the end. I think the advantage of secondaries are that they have economies of scale and more experience of different DC with different SN and SEN. I would go for a school with a good ethos and some relevant experience, but see how support wil be managed.

In my DS's school they have a thriving learning skills dept where DC with all sorts of SEN are withdrawn from key subjects like Maths, English and MFL and taught within the LS dept in these subjects. (Rather like a generalised SEN base.) My DS is too academically able for this support, though, so has a gaggle of TAs supporting him in the MS lessons. It's tricky because I see the need for specialist subject TAs at secondary ( I would struggle in Spanish and Biology for example) but it does mean they know their subject better than they know my DS! I guess a specialist ASD base would be great for social skills etc, but if your DS is able, would he not get more out of attending MS lessons with good 1:1?

Sorry if it wasn't quite relevant. With the 'stigma' thing, I think you really need to try to think what would be best for your DD if you ignored the 'stigma.' If that is the SS, then think again, would your DD 'pass for normal' in RL? Would she achieve as much in the way of academic and life skills in a MS school that could give help her to be independant as possible as an adult as she would in a special school? My DS goes to a MS school, but he is academically average, not clever, but average in an average comp. Our local SSs aren't set up for DC with his academic abilities, but would have been much better for his 'life skills.'

Visit all the schools and the SENCos and see how the support is set up. Don't go on reputation. If I had gone for the highly desirable, middle class, high achieving comp for my DS, he would have been, in their words, 'one of the marginalised children who congregates in the library at lunchtimes' with no support and would have soon been 'managed' out of their school.

Polter - I do think that's important. The attitude of the SENCO.

In one school, I've seen, I was just so drawn by the can-do, unphased attitude of the SENCO

The social issues a secondary school will be able to deal with much better than a child working at KS1 levels, whilst the English and Maths departments will probably have bottom sets and will therefore be able to differentiate the curriculum appropriately other subjects, especially the humanities, will require a far greater ability to read and write than your child can currently cope with. They will need significant support to make progress in a secondary school.

Scottish dancer, your son's levels are very low and he would really struggle in mainstream. We chose to send flying boy to secondary special because as a teacher what happens to very weak students is that they land up surviving with a velcroed TA next to them. This marks them out as 'special' and then they start to resent it and get stroppy with the poor TA but there is no way they can access the curriculum. I didn't want my son to get too reliant, he had survived primary in this way. I think had he gone tomaibstream he might have got a few more qualifications but he never would have got a B in gcse art as he would never have been allowed near art (he can't draw or access the normal art curriculum), neither would he have got to do many of his achievements and actually I think he woyld have school refused. The one downside is that now he is older, he has no local friends and suffers from high anxiety so accessing mainstream stuff is hard for him.

Teachers (and I am one) are pushed constantly to get huge percentages of their students through with good grades. The curriculum just isnt designed for anyone operating below a 3a on entry. OP, i think your daughter sounds more borderline and I can understand where the EP is coming from there. If she's got some reasonable skills, I would think about your nearest school. Talk to the senco and see also what they offer for gcse. Is there an option for college one day a week, ASDAN or COPE courses so that she can have a mix of GCSE. I think go for the better school, in the better area which is more local to you. Unless you live in Surrey, you won't find an lea mainstream schhol for girls for the cognitively average+ student. For this you are going to have to go indie secondary. Be aware, these schools are boy heavy and girls are often in a minority.

Pm me if you want names of indie schools but you will have a fight on your hands.