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I don't think I can cope for much longer. :o(

70 replies

spongebobandpatrick · 15/02/2013 17:21

Please can anyone offer me an insight into my DD's behaviour and some advice as to the best way to parent her, because to be quite honest, I am rapidly losing the will to carry on.
I'm not sure what the alternatives are, apart from to keep plodding along, but I'm not really getting anywhere, or at least, that's how it feels to me.
I have decided that the best thing is to be completely honest here, so I hope I don't get too much of a flaming.

DD is 4 and a half.

Most of the time, dd is lovely, she is chatty and funny and bright, but whenever she cannot get her own way, she throws the mother of all tantrums. She is very defiant and destructive and will hit, spit or scream at me. She will deliberately break/smash things too if at all possible. I do tell dd this is not acceptable in a firm voice and then where I am able to, I ignore. dd is not bothered if i ignore her, when she is naughty, she doesn't respond to any discipline whatsoever, nothing bothers her. No matter what priviledges I remove, she continues the bad behaviour. No matter how firmly I speak to her, she continues dribbling spit and screaming.
Short of physically picking dd up and moving her to a safe place, there is not much else that I haven't tried to discipline dd or to get control over the situation that has worked.
I can't adequately explain how defiant dd is.

As a baby, dd was fine, ate well, slept well, seemed perfectly fine, but once she was old enough to pull herself up to a kneeling position in her cot, she began headbanging. The headbanging was ferocious and continuous. I contacted my HV who advised me to ignore, said it was all attention seeking, and I was to ignore at all costs.
I tried this, but to be honest, the constant thud thud thud was beginning to annoy me, so I tried distracting dd. This was not effective for more than a few minutes at most but I continued distracting for years just to make the bloody noise stop. I live in quite a new house and the soundproofing is not good, which means that if dd headbangs over the other side of the house to me, it sounds like someone is hammering a nail into a wall. It has been like living with permanent DIY going on, day in and day out for years.
If I removed dd from the cot to stop her headbanging, she would headbang on any hard surface she could find.
Over the years, I have repeatedly sought advice from the HV, the GP, and have seen a consultant paediatrician. All of the advice was to ignore.
dd would headbang when she was tired or feeling any negative emotion. She would headbang on concrete floors, walls, cot bars, backs of chairs, doors, the back of her car seat whilst in the car and anywhere else she could. It is so violent that my car bounces around and I can feel it when I am driving. Sad

My next door neighbours attempted to have me evicted on the grounds of noise nuisance and things are very strained between us even now.
Despite the advice to ignore, that dd would outgrow it, I tried distracting, or removing whenever she was doing it.
It took until dd was 4 before it has improved, and it doesn't happen much now.

Only now, it has been replaced with rocking and chanting. When I say chanting, I mean at the top of her voice. Usually when dd is tired or experiencing negative emotions.
dd rocks herself to self soothe I think, only it has torn apart my sofa, from grabbing hold of the edge and rocking back and forwards ferociously for months on end, every day, multiple times a day whilst rubbing her hair against the sofa, and chanting loudly.
Whenever dd begins rocking and chanting, I can feel my blood pressure rising!! I really really can't abide the sound, so usually cannot ignore for very long, as well as the sound of my sofa creaking and groaning with the force.
dd rocks in bed at night to go to sleep, and has a bald patch on her head from all of the head rubbing.
She also kneels facing backwards on my dining chairs and rocks back and forth, causing the legs to continuously bang onto the hard floor, and it is very loud. I can hear it at the end of my garden.

Nothing stops her. I don't want the noise of her doing it. I don't want my furniture broken to satisfy her incessant need to rock and bang.

My intense hatred of the rocking and banging effects the way I discipline dd. I have got to the point where I will do almost anything to make her stop, although I realise that is foolish.

When dd is naughty, I cannot give her a time out because she will start headbanging. Sad
I cannot sit her on a dining chair for timeout because she will rock and bang the legs of the chair.
I usually remove toys, tv or something else she values to discipline her, and speak to her firmly. It has no effect.

I have tried seeking help for so many years and have asked for so much help, but I am only ever told to ignore the bad behaviour, use positive reinforcement and time outs. I cannot use timeouts because of the resulting banging. No one seemed to take me seriously, until dd started school. Now she has started school, at last someone else can see how defiant and uncontrollable dd can be, not all of the time I must say, but when she is annoyed/angry, which is obviously quite often.
She has bitten other children, and the school are concerned about dd's erratic mood swings. They say her behaviour can be extreme, that she kicks, punches, slaps and bites and can be unpredictable. She can be very defiant, using adult language in context aggressively. (no examples here)
School say she headbangs and kicks out, her moods are difficult to read and her responses are inconsistent.

School say her behaviour has improved slightly since starting school, and when her mood is 'read' correctly, they make progress but on some days, no approach works. Confrontation causes defiance.

I have been living with these behaviours for years, and have asked for help so many times that I am convinced no one knows what to do for dd, so they advise me to ignore, which clearly isn't getting control of the situation.
I have completely lost hope that someone somewhere can help dd, and help me to parent her effectively.

If you have any idea what I can do to help dd, without creating WW3 with my neighbours, or without having to listen to the same chant over and over for hours and hours and hours, or the incessant banging, please tell me.

I wonder if there is an underlying cause to dd's behaviour, or whether it is just shit parenting on my behalf. I have cut out all unnatural foods and drinks from her diet, it has made no difference to her behaviour.

I am dreading this half term holiday. Sad

I am a single parent with no support from exp and very little support from family. I am now worried I am going to lose the few friends I have because of dd's behaviour. I'm sure they secretly blame my inadequate parenting. I tend not to take dd to friend's houses over the holidays because dd can be unpredictable and aggressive. Sad

It seems that no matter what I ask dd to do, she always always does the opposite. Always!!

Sorry for the long post, but thank you for getting this far.

OP posts:
spongebobandpatrick · 09/03/2013 22:21

Thanks PolterGoose.

I suppose I was just ranting. Parenting in a PDA fashion is not my knee jerk style of parenting and when I get cross, I don't always think with a cool head, and usually make things worse. Worse than that is when other people punish DD in front of me, obviously because they feel the reason DD isn't behaving is because I am so soft with her.
I am still constantly surprised at people I thought I knew well are advising me to smack DD, or do something quite cruel to teach her a lesson. I have even had people advising me to bite DD back, pin her down to the floor, and when I had what I thought was a friend round, and I nipped to the loo, I came down to DD screaming and my so called friend pinning DD's head to the cooker door with her leg. Shock
DD had crawled in between her legs, and she was wearing a skirt, told DD not to do that, DD laughed, so friend got angry and pushed her leg against DD's head so DD was wedged between my so called friend and the cooker door. (Cooker was off, but that's no defense.)

I told my friend to go, and had a go at her to tell the truth, told her she was an adult and DD was a child who had enough problems and didn't need that, to which she replied 'You need to stop making excuses for her!' as she flounced off. I am still angry about that and obviously I don't want to see her, possibly ever again.
I am so grateful to everyone on here. You don't judge and you just offer support and help.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Ineedmorepatience · 09/03/2013 22:22

Sorry cross posted with polter she has given better advice about the dla than me Smile

spongebobandpatrick · 09/03/2013 22:23

To tell the truth, I had a go at her

OP posts:
spongebobandpatrick · 09/03/2013 22:31

PolterGoose and Ineedmorepatience, Thank you for your help. I have not had a report back from the EP yet. It was just verbal feedback.
I knew DD was being assessed by the EP, and I asked if I could see the EP when she came in, so we had a meeting, me, the EP and the SENCO to discuss DD and some of the EP's observations.

I think I might stand more chance of successfully claiming DLA if I at least wait for the EP's report?

OP posts:
PolterGoose · 09/03/2013 22:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ineedmorepatience · 09/03/2013 22:39

I dont blame you having a go at that person, that is another example of what makes you a good mum. You can see when other people judge your Dd and dont understand her and you stick up for her. Poor parents dont do that, ime.

You might do better not posting the dla form until you have the report but there is nothing stopping you filling it in.

PolterGoose · 09/03/2013 22:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ineedmorepatience · 09/03/2013 22:51

I agree with polter about trying to spot the triggers for outbursts and then trying to avoid them.

When Dd3 was younger we used to avoid supermarkets, queueing, restraunts, busy play centres, most relativesGrin, cinemas. New foods or known foods with different bits in always causes meltdowns even now. Changes in routines and plans.

I could go on all night but I guess what I am saying is, it is up to you what triggers you avoid. Make yours and your Dd's life easier if you can and stuff what anyone else thinks.

Am off to bed now but will pop back tomorrowSmile

spongebobandpatrick · 09/03/2013 23:28

I shall order the DLA form, and the guide is very helpful indeed, so thank you for the link.

Should I also make an appointment at the GP's to ask for a referral to a paediatrician if the SENCO has said she will refer directly? And if I do need to get a referral via GP too, is it necessary to take DD to the appointment too? DD doesn't cope very well at all with waiting in a doctors surgery, but if needs must, I will obviously take her.

I also avoid taking DD shopping, she has never been to the cinema (wouldn't concentrate on the film) and I avoid taking her to most some friend's houses, or even swimming, which I know she would love. I am going to try to take her though, simply because when she has been, she has enjoyed it. It is more because I get embarrassed at her behaviour (she used to shout bollocks at the top of her voice in the supermarket before I stopped taking her out of my own embarrassment Blush ).

I have modified her food and drink intake, and yes, that costs me a lot of money. She never has anything that has added sweeteners in, but she wont drink water, so I buy what she will drink, which is usually blackcurrant high juice, but the full sugar variety, or orange juice (not from concentrate). She also takes innocent smoothies and innocent juice drinks to school for snack and lunch every day.

We only eat meat from a local butcher and she doesn't have much processed food, although occasionally she enjoys eating spaghetti in tomato sauce.

Mind you, a lot of food is wasted when she decides she is happy to eat something, then has a melt down because of either how it has been presented or because she has changed her mind by the time it is put on her plate.

PolterGoose, Thank you for your post, and especially the last verse bit. Thank you.

OP posts:
PolterGoose · 10/03/2013 08:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zebrafinch · 10/03/2013 09:10

keep a diary for a few days when you dd is at home and record every behaviour and what you are doing to care for your dd and help her. This will be useful not just for when you complete the DLA application but also for getting help with some respite. You need a break and a rest OP, it does not mean that your DD is sent away , sometimes SS will pay for someone to come to the house or take DD out. I really struggled on until I recorded it all down and showed the doctor and the social worker exactly what the situation was, I just could not have carried on, I was on another planet due to chronic sleep deprivation. I know you have said above you have some concerns regarding social services and only you can make the decision to contact them for help. Personally I found my child's social worker very supportive when they actually were informed of the real situation. Regarding DLA, your Dd should qualify as she needs more care and supervision that a child the same age as her who does not have her condition. You do not need an actual diagnosis but written support from health professionals is very useful. Also it is not means tested and does not affect your income support.

Ineedmorepatience · 10/03/2013 09:20

Morning sponge I also scour the shelves for full sugar versions of squash. Dd3 only drinks one variety from one supermarket or orange juice which I have been told to limit since she had a uti.

The behaviour in the supermarket is probably down to sensory issues. It is too bright/noisy/busy for our children to cope with. Dd3 can be very outspoken and usually picks busy places to embarass me.

Swimming is great but again it can lead to sensory overload. Try going for the last hour in a public session as it can be much quieter. Avoid fun session at first because they tend to be really busy.

When Dd3 embarasses( I cant spell that word) me these days I just say Thanks for that Dd3 and ignore the catsbum faces around me. I have tried and tried to stop her saying inappropriate things but if it pops into her head she has to say it, she has no edit button as my dsis saysGrin

Hope you have a better day todaySmile

spongebobandpatrick · 01/05/2013 22:15

Thank you for all the wonderful advice. I am here to update, and I'm afraid it isn't all good news. Sad

I have now applied for DLA for DD, and am waiting to hear if DD will be awarded DLA. I am told DWP have received my application and claims are taking up to 11 weeks to process atm.

The GP agreed to make a referral to a paediatrician who specialises in children with behaviour issues, but instead he has made a referral to CAMHS, who we have an appointment with this month.

The school have made a referral to a paediatrician who has written to the school for reports, with my permission of course, and upon receiving these reports, will be arranging an appointment to see DD.

School is difficult at the moment, and I am not quite sure how to handle the situation. DD has become increasingly aggressive at school, yet school say there's not a single thing sets DD off. Hmm
Other parents are now making generalised comments about there being a 'little fucker' in DD's class, and how they blame the parents for children's aggression because violence is learnt from the parents apparently.
One parent doesn't know how much longer she can hold her temper, yet refuses to say which child she is referring to, so I could be overthinking it.
None of the parents, to my knowledge, have said it is DD they are talking about, and I know other children in the class have been agressive too, but it is playing on my mind.

School have now reached a point where they feel they have no option but to send DD home when she is aggressive, which I understand, but oh how I wish they had enough evidence to statement her instead so she could actually be more closely supervised at school and not sent home. Sad
If the aggression continues, which I'm sure it will Sad they have said the next step is to send DD home for a few days at a time. I'm not convinced this is in DD's best interests, or the best interests of her education.
All the teachers keep saying is that things will get better and I just have to keep reiterating that the aggressive behaviour is wrong. I feel like tearing my hair out. I wish it was that fucking simple...just to explain it 50million times and DD would stop!!! What do they think I have been doing for the last few years??
DD does not have any empathy, she doesn't understand cause and effect, so how effective is constantly telling her what she is doing is unkind, if that is the only fucking strategy they have to stop this behaviour??????
I, probably unreasonably, find it bloody patronising when her teacher says 'Please speak to DD about what kind behaviour is again..it will get better, but she has to learn. We have told her today that school don't want her to be here if she can't be kind.'
I just can't see it working!!! I do tell her, a lot!!!!! I tell her every day!! I tell her in different ways!!! I try, i really do and it is embarrassing and stressful to just be told it will get better once DD understands...which they are hoping she will before september!!!! Shock

Perhaps I just needed to get that out..thanks for listening.

OP posts:
MareeyaDolores · 01/05/2013 22:44

They have enough evidence to statement her. Providing it's not being deliberately covered up. If school have to resort to regular illegal exclusions to maintain health & safety, that's more than enough evidence.

Call ipsea tomorrow. Call anyone who'd remember, rack your brains, look in the link book, check your phone and diary... so you can make a note of the times and dates of each and every early pickup. Write down what anyone says to you from now on. And put in a statement application now yourself.

MareeyaDolores · 01/05/2013 22:49

And insist school refers her to occupational therapy right now. Very knowledgable about practical strategies for almost any problem, and very rare to meet an OT devoid of common sense, so a good profession to have on board early.

spongebobandpatrick · 01/05/2013 23:27

Thanks for your reply Mareeya.

The school have said the reason they have to exclude DD is because of the risk to the staff and other children she's assaulting, and apparently it's the school rules, not the headteachers rules, but the LA's H&S rules.

Who are ipsea?

The school don't seem to know what to do with DD, and have asked specialist teachers for advice and the last I heard, the specialist teachers want to come to see DD, but I've not heard that they've been yet.

OP posts:
Toni27 · 02/05/2013 07:22

In the meantime try cranial osteopathy our son was much calmer after this x

JsOtherHalf · 02/05/2013 22:05

www.ipsea.org.uk/

popgoestheweezel · 02/05/2013 23:30

I second IPSEA and also worth contacting your local parent partnership for advice too, PP can attend meetings with you which I would recommend esp if your exP isn't going with you- it's essential to have another person to back you up, they will make notes too. Other good sources of support are local autism groups.

I think it is a good time to write to the school (ideally with the help of IPSEA and Parent Partnership). You need to communicate to school the evidence that dd's behaviours are due to her special needs. You need to prove the case that it is not your parenting. Do you have other dc's who behave like this? We were given a support worker to check our parenting before we were accepted onto the paed's waiting list despite the fact that our dd gets awards for her impeccable behaviour at school. The support worker soon passed us on when I bombarded her with a list of exactly what we had tried and how traditional behavioural techniques had worked for dd but catastrophically failed with ds whereas PDA ones were successful for him. You can show how you have already asked for advice, have followed it faithfully but not had any success. Have you tried any PDA strategies yet?

CAMHS will be looking for evidence of mental health issues. If you are convinced that her difficulties are special needs (and it certainly sounds like it) then you need to present evidence of it. e.g. we gave examples of how ds' difficulties fitted the triad of impairments in autism- lack of empathy, no theory of mind (can't imagine how another person might feel), disordered eye contact, not replying to greetings. Also, your dd's sensory needs suggest a neurological problem, you need to show they are not attention seeking behaviours but self-stimulating.

These exclusions are illegal if school are not recording them. School must be recording every exclusion and the head teacher must write to you formally giving reasons and informing you of how long the exclusion is. Also they should be setting alternative work for your dd while she is excluded.
Look on the D of Ed website for more info www.education.gov.uk/aboutdfe/statutory/g00210521/statutory-guidance-regs-2012/guidance/duty-to-inform-parties

Information is power and I would recommend that you start reading the SEN Code of Practice, quoting from it in your letter will make school sit up and take notice I'm sure! This document is a brief overview to get you started www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/190545/DCSF-00639-2008.pdf

This is like a game of chess, plan your every move and anticipate their possible moves and how you'll circumnavigate them.

Ilisten2theradio · 03/05/2013 17:54

Also just to add to all the useful advice that you have already had tht in my area CAHMS diagnose ASD and other things too. Who you see and the assesment they do depends on why you have been referred, so you might find tht they are actually helpful and can diagnose when you do get your appointment.
If they send your DD home without an exclusion letter then it is an illegal exclusion. Each time they ask you to collect her ask for the letter and refuse otherwise.
It will either back up your need for addtional help, or they will stop sending her home.

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