MNHQ - please could you explain why you deleted my post in the AIBU thread

[Bluebirdonmyshoulder]

I'm posting this here because I want to stay away from AIBU because I think it's not a nice place.

Please could you explain why you deleted two of my posts in which I challenged a disablist attitude and said I found MN to often have unpleasant attitudes towards children with SN. Other posters said similar and didn't get deleted and I'm genuinely confused and actually very upset that you did this.

I feel isolated enough as a parent as it is.

I'm fairly new to MN and only really come on this board - what guidelines or unwritten rules have I broken? I'm not being difficult here - I really don't understand.

I don't think your handling of this is in keeping with your recent campaign idea either.

Did you say anything directly to the posters who said it? That's the bit that often forces MNHQ to delete, even if the sentiment of the post is entirely reasonable.

If you say 'I find that view point uninformed and hurtful' it stays. If you say 'You are uninformed and hurtful' it goes.

It's all in the phrasing which is very useful if you want to make your point but keep within the rules.

Btw...I've reported your post, so that MNHQ see it. They don't see all the posts in all the places, so unless a thread is reported, they might seem to ignore you

Thanks lougle, so I should have said, "Hmm, some people may consider that that view of children with SN might come across as unkind and narrow-minded. Not that you, poster X, are of course, ooh no!"

Thanks!

I think the 'Not that you, poster X, are of course, ooh no!' would alert MNHQ to the true feeling and may still get you a deletion, tbh they are hotting up on that, going by a previous thread where they said that cross outs are for wit and sarcasm, not just saying what you want to say with a pretty line through it as if it didn't exist

lougle ok, I see what you mean!

I think I'll just stay away from AIBU. Lots of posters seem to be posting just to see how outrageous they can be and they seem to forget they're real people who probably wouldn't openly say those hurtful things in real life.

Thanks for cheering me up! This is such a nice supportive board so maybe I'll just hide the rest.

Blue - I saw your post, and it was probably the "people like you etc" comment that got your post deleted.

It's a rookie mistake, we all make them.

Hi Bluebird. Sounds like you've got your answer but if you'd like us to fill you in, we'd be happy to.

Just mail us at contactus at mumsnet.com. Might be a bit more private than posting it all up on the thread?

Actually Helen I don't have an answer because - respectfully - I would really like to hear it from you so that I know what I did wrong.

I'd appreciate you answering me publicly here. I don't care if you tell me off publicly, you already deleted my post publicly so that's fine. And whilst privacy has its place, so does openness and transparency.

So much of life as a parent of a child with SN is about hiding and being invisible and realising how much of society just doesn't cater for you and your DC. I'm hiding so much of my life at the moment that actually I'd would very much like this issue to be aired openly so I can (genuinely) learn if I did anything wrong - which was not my intent - and so other posters who post on SN topics can see what the prevailing opinion in MNHQ is too. I'm sure this isn't the last time that we'll see an example of everyday disablism at work on MN because MN posters just represent society at large.

In the spirit of "This is my child" or whatever your proposed campaign is going to be, I've already learnt that challenging disablism, both casual and overt, is going to be a case of "This is my life" and so that's why I'd like a public answer.

I hope you understand and don't think I'm being confrontational because I'm really not and this post is written in the spirit of learning and then drawing a line under this.

And thank you for your support Poltergoose.

No, that's fine, Bluebird.

We have emailed you already, as it happens.

But, in brief, you attacked other posters personally. Which is against our Talk Guidelines.

As we said in our mail to you, we totally understand why you felt as you did (you'll see that a fair few other posts have been deleted, at least one of them for including a disablist comment, as we posted to explain later in the thread) but we do have a rule about not making personal attacks on other posters.

And we do think it's possible to challenge disablist attitudes without making personal attacks: you can attack what folks are saying ("What a horrible post!") without attacking personally ("You're horrible!").

Thank you for your reply Helen.

In my defence I don't agree that I 'attacked' another poster. That word seems a bit strong quite honestly. But I certainly did challenge them as a person rather than challenging the post in a passive way so I'll take that on board.

I really don't understand what was wrong with my second post as it was replying to another poster who addressed me directly and said I was being harsh. She didn't say the post was harsh, she said , "I think you are unduly harsh.". Yet that isn't deleted. I don't understand the distinction if I'm honest.

I must say, having looked at some of the threads in AIBU, I don't think you apply your rule very consistently and it's depressing that a post challenging disablism is deemed worthy of censure when so much other stuff is left.

But thank you for your reply and I'll be careful in future.

A pleasure, Bluebird.

It really is splitting hairs at this point but the other poster said your conclusions were harsh, rather than you were harsh - which is fine.

Point taken about other posts in AIBU. But we at MNHQ do not read or pre-moderate every post. Our Talk philosophy relies on all Mumsnetters appreciating the need for our Talk Guidelines and being prepared to report posts that break our guidelines when they see them. We can only deal with posts/threads that are reported to us.

Please do report any posts you see in AIBU that break our guidelines. We'd be happy to take a look.

very well written Bluebird .

I completely agree, Poltergoose

No apologies necessary Polter, hijack away. I started this thread to engender the kind of discussion you mention because I don't think I was offensive. Yes, I challenged someone but I didn't swear at them, I challenged them on their on words which they chose to write.

I was thinking something very similar to you. As per my post to Helen, I don't see why we should hide away. Kind of, "Our kids are here, they're not going anywhere, we're not sending them to a modern day leper colony so get used to it you fuckusing cunteses.". (MNHQ - that was a humorous tribute to Polter's DS, not an attack on anyone!)

I actually was considering posting something in AIBU - "AIBU to start a discussion where I ask you to consider life with a child with SN and ask you to do the following things to help us feel less isolated and less terrified for their future" - or something along those lines.

I'm not scared of AIBU anymore. I'm angry that I have to tiptoe around and observe guidelines when someone is saying something about children that if they said about people of a different race or sexual orientation they'd get banned from MN for.

And by the way, isn't it interesting where 'Special Needs' is placed On the Talk Topics board. Below 'Fun and Games', below 'Homes and Gardens', even below 'Other Stuff.' Now I have bigger things to worry about than this, but I do think it's indicative of special needs being an afterthought, something that people don't really want to fully engage with. As if we should be grateful for scraps from the table rather than being recognised as normal people dealing with something very very hard and doing our best.

What does everyone else think?

Ummm..I think that would be the nature of alphabetical listing, blue.

Unless you'd like 'SN' to be renamed 'aardvarks need not apply'

Yes, looking at it is alphabetical, except it goes a bit wonky towards the end!

I suppose as well because it is a board you have to sign into, iyswim, then it is bound to be a bit cut off from the rest of the board.

But it's not alphabetical Lougle, Pets, Products, Mumsnet Local and For Sale all come after Special Needs!

Although I love the idea of changing our name to aardvarks!!

I think they have just mixed up their p's and s's, tbh.

..local and for sale, are sort of seperate to the main board.

I didn't know you had to sign in to special needs, it all appears on my computer! If so then I beg MN's pardon on that score!