Echolalic but sociable and shoing signs of sharing....

[MrsMushroom]

I have posted before about my friends DS...he's 3 and having what appears to be a speech delay or possibly could be on the spectrum.

He's almost completely echolalic...but he is saying phrases that are pertinent to the situation...so if he's hungry and my friend offers him something to eat, he might respond with "But he was still hungry." from the very hungry caterpillar. He has a lot of phrases...tonnes...some are things he just mutters about undeer his breath and others, as I say are used t communicate.

He scripts from thomas a LOT too and also has begun glancing sideways at objects but not often...maybe a couple of times a day....I look after him and have only witnessed this literally about twice to three times a day...he'll bang a toy up and down for the noise and then put his eyes close to it and look out of the side of them.

He has begun recently to bring toys or objects to show his Mum and she sees this as a really good thing (as do I) but she's finally decided to speak to the HV about her DS echolalia and his obsession with tv and phones...he also wont use a fork but she spoon feeds him and is worried about his constipation too.

Do you think it is possible to have echolalia this much at 3 and come out of it? He's only just turned 3 and doesn't attend nursery yet.

so If I understood this right, then his phrased speech is mainly echolalia? then no, I don't think this within the reams of a a normal language development.

does he appear to have normal understanding (i.e. can follow instructions)?

from my experience (DD has autism), I have to say that HVs are absolutely useless. If I were the mum, I would go via GP to get her DS referred to a developmental paediatrician and to SALT. In a lot of areas, there are SALT also drop in sessions, worth checking out these. Also, you can self refer to SALT so she could this this as well.

Thanks choc....if I say to him "Can you get your shoes?" he sometimes will but mainly he wont take any notice of my speaking to him or in fact anyone speaking to him.

He wont respond to "would you like a biscuit?" I have to just put it near his hand and make sure he sees it.

to be on the safe side, also ask your friend to get her DS referred to a hearing test just to rule out any issue with his hearing.

Hi Mrs Mushroom. That sounds very much like my DS. I spent a full 3 years hoping he had a resolvable speech delay. I wish I'd gotten on to the ASD side of things much earlier. He's 8 now, fully diagnosed with ASD and a lovely boy. I know its upsetting for your friend, but she needs to do whats best for him rather than hope it will go away.

Thank you guys...shells is your son able to talk with his own thoughts now? Come up with original conversation as it were?

thanks very much zzz this is so helpful for my friend. He does enjoy the company of other DC which I think is a great sign.

Yes, enjoying the company of others is great. And agree with zzzz that it sounds like a disorder rather than a delay. There are lots of techniques you can use at home to help it.
My son speaks pretty well now but has processing problems and does resort to echolalia sometimes. But he can make himself understood and expresses orginial thoughts which is brilliant.

I definitely agree about skipping the HV and going straight to the GP for a referral. Also ask about Hanen courses in your area which are great for encouraging early communication, you can buy the book and do it yourself but the courses are better.

As others have said, echolalia at this level isn't 'normal development' but it's important not to see it as 100% negative - it's an attempt at verbal communication. It's showing DS wants to communicate which is really important. Something like Hanen will help her bring this on, for example with the biscuit you are doing the right thing, get it right in front of him and say 'want biscuit?' Then wait for something - anything!- then model the right response back. So it goes

You: show biscuit really, really clearly and say 'want biscuit?' then wait. The waiting is really important.
Him: 'But he was still hungry'
You: DC want biscuit?
Him: you may get 'but he was still hungry' again, but you might get 'DC want biscuit'.

Either way, give him the biscuit Don't make a massive fuss, don't talk too much, keep it two-word sentences and lots of pauses. Essentially you're trying to click a switch between his desire to communicate and the 'right' words.

My DD may be a bit similar to your friend's DS in that she is also quite sociable and has some disorder of her speech. The first sign that anything was a bit different was delay - which I hope she would grow out of. When she slowly did acquire some language, it was single words and phrases; she used them all in context, but her speech lacked a natural quality, if that makes sense.
She has just turned four, and has dx of ASD and speech & language disorder. She is brilliant with nouns and can name almost anything within her ambit. She can initiate speech when she wants something, albeit that her language has quite a forced quality when doing this. There's no real conversation as such and she shows much echolalia. She doesn't really recite from tv programmes, but tends to repeat what other people have said, particularly her older brother. She has a very sing-song quality to her voice, and no trace of an accent at all (despite us living in a part of the country with quite a pronounced accent). Lately, I have noticed that she sometimes makes up her own words for some things - I can see where she is coming from with these words (so far!), but it is so different to how my DS (NT) developed language.
It is lovely that you are so supportive to your friend. If she gets the brush-off from the HV, she should request referral to developmental paed from her GP. I would also recommend a hearing test. I always thought DD heard fine, and said so at all her appointments. When she was younger, she wouldn't respond to her name, but could hear me taking the mixer out of the cupboard (buns!). The paed said she should have a hearing test anyway - it turns out that she has glue ear and we're waiting for ENT appointment.
Hope it goes well for your friend and her DS.

Thank you so much. Wilson that's very useful...I always wondered how to encourage him to respond...at the moment, I just talk to him as I would my own DC when they were that age...so I point things out or ask questions but never get a response....he sometimes smiles at me though.

March friend did say that she feels he hears well and I have to agree that I thought so too....he won't respond to his name but he can hear his fave show on from upstairs.

If I was you, and she was asking for my opinion, I would say go straight to the GP for referral to developmental paediatrican/social communication clinic. He sounds similar to my ds at that age, who was dx with asd at 3.6. He was very echolalic, did the sideways looking, was often non-responsive to questions etc.

All the questions you ask about future prognosis etc - no-one can predict, but fwiw my ds is nearly 6yo now, is very very very chatty, very conversational, has genuine friendships, is at mainstream school, creative, funny, interactive, sociable, and to anyone who didn't know, shows no sign of autism (though of course he still has it). His difficulties now lie in other areas (eg emotional regulation).

The echolalia didn't last long, and as Wilson said, it's a good sign as it shows desire to communicate.

Imho the classic 'early' signs of asd don't always have any bearing on how the condition will affect a person later in life.

If she wants to start doing things to help his communication and interaction, Hanen is a great place to start. I might also suggest her looking into early intervention therapies (we use ABA, a behavioural therapy). Also diet, esp if constipation is an issue - eg look into gluten/dairy free diets (search on these boards too).

biallystock Do you think the echolalia went away due to the hep you got for DS after he was dx? I will tell her about Hanen and ABA to....

Hmm it's hard to say for sure, as of course it's been 2.5 years since dx and children develop and change so much anyway, and tbh I expect lots of children naturally grow out of it without specific interrvention.

In our case I can't remember exactly when the echolalia stopped (I know it was definitely after we started ABA) but I can say for sure that within weeks of starting ABA he was answering questions appropriately, he was using requests, and he was starting to show genuine interaction. It seemed like we had finally found a method of communicating with him that actually made a difference to our relationship with him, and at the same time we could see before our eyes how much he was learning how to communicate effectively.

Oh God my friend would be so relived with that kind of response....it sounds amazing.

Ha ha yes it is, but expensive and not at all straightforward! Have a look through threads here (search ABA in the SN board) and there's lots of info.

This is the fabulous Hanen book.