What has the same traits as asd......but isn't?

[sweetteamum]

my son has lots of traits that indicate ASD. this is fine until he is assessed at school during a lesson and breaktime. They mention the sensory, his literal thinking, other traits, yet they have ruled ASD out as he initiated conversation and he had a 2 way conversation.

We had our appointment at camhs today and they say that the way i'm describing him, it indicates ASD/ADHD but they know the person who assessed him at school, and said she is well respected - which i know, as she picked up my DD's subtleties. So it doesn't look like that route is an option anymore.

I'm unsure where to turn or what I can do now

Ds1 is similar and they're trying to label him ADD/ADHD which doesn't fit either imo.

I think dyspraxia but OT disagrees.

Appointment with consultant psyche in a couple of weeks so I'm looking forward to hearing his take on it.

So far child guidance have said his presentation is 'complex' which is less than helpful.

This may be useful for those who do not quite 'tick the box' yet touch on some symptoms.

It's all so confusing. Especially when they're complex isn't it. My son does sound very similar and I have queried Dyspraxia too (we haven't seen anybody as yet though)......I do believe there is ADHD though, so that sounded about right. It doesn't help that he hasn't progressed at all in 2 school years in Literacy/numeracy, and it isn't dyslexia, so it's all up in the air for them.

thanks for the link :)

Dt2 was ruled out early on for the fact that he was able to have a reciprocal conversation and could start a conversation. However he was diagnosed with aspergers last year at aged 10. We had Add and dyspraxia diagnosis but aspergers made things fall into place for us. He is able to initiate and sustain conversation about his interests but less able to sustain a conversation about things that don't interest him, although he can initiate one for the sake of politeness, Dt2 can also be a bit obsessive about appearing polite and interested which can complicate issues as it sometimes seems that he is the opposite of what should be Asd and dt1 usually appears far more self centred. Dt2 has regularly been described as complex

Sweettea - it took years for my DS to be dx'd with AS because he didn't seem to tick all the boxes. When I read the Attwood book on AS, I could see he didn't quite fit but every single thing about him that was quirky or problematic was in there and I just recognised him in what I read. It's a spectrum and people fit into it at many points. My DS is very much on the grey area but still very definitely on the spectrum. Surely your DS needs a full assessment not just an hour at school? As I understand it - and there are many on these boards with much more knowledge than myself - CAMHS cannot diagnose either. Hopefully someone else here will be able to suggest more to help you.

One decent conversation with a friendly adult, or having nice classmates, doesn't exclude a major difficulty with pragmatic language.

Other conditions which may have autistic features
Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)
Global Developmental Delay (GDD)
Semantic Pragmatic Disorder
Rett syndrome
Pathological Demand Avoidance

still worth looking at the ADOS if it's on offer.
The last few posts have given many of the other possibilities so I really don't have much to add - however please remember that the important word in ASD is spectrum - there are many many shades and colours, with different degrees for different people. The other thing, which may have already been mentioned, is the correlation between asd and other conditions such as dyslexia, dyspraxia, adhd, to name a few. Having a two way conversation doesn't rule out asd btw.

DAMP from that link fits ds1. Which is rather useless really unless we move to Sweden

Ds is 6, can initiated a conversation and keep it going two ways. He has a Dx of classic ASD moderate-severe.

The Dx criteria doesn't say anything about this. The education person is not qualified to assess.

Once again, Thanks so much for all your replies. They are so useful.

I guess when I have a specialist asd teacher telling everybody, by letter, that he's not pervasive and is social, it's hard to get them to listen to us. To be fair on the CAMHS lady, She was helping even though she was confused, as my list clearly showed signs of ASD/ADHD but when she spoke to her superior he told her how experienced and well respected this lady is, in that field.

TBH, I feel like we're going to end up down the private ADOS route, just to clear things up. However, I will still push for the ADOS if they will offer it. I did explain that my DD was having the ADOS next weekend, just so they knew there was already a query in the family.

Also, I have booked a private SALT to assess him tomorrow. Is there anything I need to be asking her for?

Ask the SALT to assess for functional language and pragmatic understanding.

DS1 can have a two way conversation. Even barely verbal DS2 can have a conversation of sorts.

I don't think any diagnosis should be ruled out on the basis of one hour of one day.

I'm going to list things that I have read about over the past couple of years (after asd was mentioned about my son) but could all present some autistic traits.

1. Eye sight problems
2. Hearing problems
3. General upbringing during early years (don't shoot me! Its just what I read.This is something which could cause some symptoms eg From child being wrapped in cotton wool to being emotionally neglected).
4. Learning style (if symptoms more prominent at school) eg visual learners; auditory learners; kinaesthetic learners or tactile learners.
5. Gifted - some gifted children are highly sensitive to sound, touch, light, textures, emotions etc and a whole host of other symptoms
6. Sometimes gifted with learning disabilities.
7. Speech delays.

As you can imagine after doing my 'research' I finally thought I would leave it to the professionals who would know what to look for aka camhs, but if my son doesn't get a dx but the symptoms are still there we will investigate further.

Who assessed him at school?

Thanks for that list.

Ds was assessed by lasc - language and social communication - (twice apparently) and a 1:1 session

Used appropriate, well integrated eye contact - this I'm really surprised at.

Range of expressions with conversation.

Turned his head, body or chair to others when speaking.

Range of gestures - shrugs, arms out to remonstrate, pointing, nodding, shaking head etc.

Appeared to have reciprocal peer relationships - he approached them and vice versa

Showed empathy toward others - younger child in a game and made a younger girl laugh who was alone - played a juggling clown.

Demonstrated clear shared enjoyment with peers but reluctant to play with assessor.

Engages in social use of language

Engages in plenty of to/fro conversation about home, friends, grandparents.

Likes to talk about topics that interest him but followed cues to discuss other things.

Sometimes interrupts when others are talking but follow teachers cue as shhh and raised hand to mean wait, bell, whistle, raised voices etc.

Can make irrelevant comments on train of thought at times

Shows emotional response to verbal and non-verbal overtures.

Ds speaks mostly with good imitation and rhythm, using voice to express emotion.

Didn't have difficulty understanding language used but appeared literal in his response.

Responds to clear verbal and visual instructions.

Does have some difficulty with reading, which is likely to be related to comprehension of text.

School appeared to have no areas of concern with regards his social behaviour. . This years school teacher thinks he's choosing to be awkward and this was only three weeks into the new term. Last years school teacher thought there was problems socially.

Could you not pay for a full cognitive assessment? They can be pricey I know but it may give you a better idea of your sons strengths and any weaknesses? and then go from there?

Thanks for coming back. I have recently had an EP assessment and although his general profile came out even, his highs were high and lows were low. So it was up and down, so they were cancelling each other out giving an even profile when you first look at it.

Sorry zzzz, SLI?

Ah thank you. It's one of the terms I've not heard of.

What was the overall scores eg high average, low average etc for verbal comprehension (VCI), perceptual reasoning (PRI), processing speed (PSI), and working memory (WMI)? did the EP run you through it? telling you what were strengths, what were weaknesses and how these would impact on his learning?

The EP didn't run through it with me tbh. He merely sent me the report and that was it. I'll have to email him and ask for him to explain what these mean and any consequences the scores may have.