Why would flapping be getting worse?

[JeffFaFa]

Ds is 7 next month and a sensory seeker he has always flapped his hands but its getting much much worse. He seems to do it on purpose and without realising. When he walks arond the livingroom he bring his hands up like a bunny and flaps them. When hes excited which is most of the time he bounces around and flaps his hands, when hes playing or listening to music he sticks his tounge out and walks up and down on toes flapping his hands, he seems to be aware of this though as if you look at him he does it more and laughs if you ask him why hes doing it he says he likes it or hes dancing

Also whens hes generally walking around or hes standing still he has one arm bent up and bent at the wrist or up in front of him bent like the bunny pose.

Should i try and stop him doing this? it does look odd at his age. He's also this week (and it may be as hes ill) been making alot more little noises where as this had reduced, hes watching tv now and hes whimpering like a cat, blowing, grunting, he keeps stretching his eyes, tilting his head and getting closer and closer to the tv

wish this referral would hurry up so i can get some insight as to whats going on!

It sounds like stimming.

DS has a few stims which come and go...some things drive me bananas (flicking his hands across his eyes) but I let it go. Trying to get DS to 'control' it seems very stressful for him.

Hope that helps.

Sorry, I just reread and realised you prob dont have a diagnosis?

Can you keep a diary of the behaviour, when it appears, what triggers it (if anything) and when it goes?

I think it is a sign that he is nor well/or less well modulated.

I think its tricky to try and stop him doing it, as it is something he does to give his body what it needs IYKWIM.

Have you tried putting a weighted or very heavy blanket across his shoulders while he watches TV...
Have you tried anything that works to give him sensory input?
Like for DS Trapeze swinging, bouncing in a moonhopper, jumping on a trampoline, having a push me pull me game with me, his listening program, sleeping with a weighted blanket are all things we do every day, or add into his day to keep him well modulated.

Does he see an OT - if so could you ask them for activities that you could try, to see if they would help meet his sensory needs?

Hello my son (no Dx) jumps and flaps he seems to do it more at home than anywhere else, the only time he tends to do this outside of the house is when he is excited but TBH I think that when he experiences this he can not physically contain himself. A long, long while ago we were thinking the same as you, that sometimes he did it to attract attention but then sometimes he would do it when we didn't see any reason for it or he thought we were not around eg when we had left the room he would run back and to in the living room while rigorously flapping. The worst thing we did was to try and control it (although I do think it did taught him when it was socially appropriate...hate saying that but hey ho) we completely lost our boy at home he wouldn't move out of a corner, didn't want to go anywhere, or do anything other than sit and stare at the TV. So as far as I am concerned he can flap away so long as it doesn't become a safety issue eg holding a fork at the dinner table ouch! Now I don't know if it was because of the fact that he was under more pressure at school or just coincidence but my sons flapping seemed to be more prominent between the ages of 6 and 7 1/2.

At 7 he could be experiencing his peers 'jumping up' a step in social complexity, which can be stressful. Sometimes stims are used to release stress, let things out, communicate in a way. Agree re finding other sensory input for him, but we focus more on when it's appropriate to do it, rather than stopping it, as takemehome says.

He seen an OT for a few months age 5 was discharged after putting a fidget cushion into school, a weighted cushion that was later removed and a chewlery necklace to stop him talking apparently. We wernt given any advice for home except take him to soft place, of which there are none for over 5's as we are rural.

He loves to crash about etc but i find it makes it worse not better once hes reved up he is very difficult to being back down any sort of attention or playing with him can set him off. Ive tried keeping a diary but tbh its constant without let up so i cant pin point whats causing what.

Heavy work activities can be calming especially for children who are sensory seekers.
More ideas here. And www.ot-mom-learning-activities.com/sensory-integration-activities.html here.

If he is a child who loves to 'crash' its possible that he is seeking more proprioceptive input..... but can also be over-aroused by movement. How did he react to the weighted cushion...and why oh why was it taken away from him?
Also chewlery is usually to provide the child with heavy proprioceptive input in the mouth not to prevent talking

I think I would be going back to the OT for a review.... sensory processing difficulties dont 'go away' but can be managed.

I wasnt really given any feedback as to how the cushion went, just that in the move from p1-p2 it was 'missing' several requests for it to be found come to nothing and its not presumed back with the OT teacher suspects it needed paid for and wasnt so it went back. The chewlery was given by the last teacher to in her words try and occupy him into talking less, his new teacher has removed it as apparently ds was trying to ping it at other children, hes only using the fidget cushion now.

The OT we seen didnt seem intrested in any of my concerns was quick to discharge and blatently told me that the previous OT (who was great and had planned to work with us but moved away) left no concerns on the system and basically wasnt intrested.

Im awaiting a referral for ds now to some childhood team so will see what comes of that.

Good luck with your childhood team assessment.
Will you bring a diary with your concerns about his issues, especially the sensory processing ones with you?
The teachers sound as though they are throwing anything sensory at him in the hope it'll work, but without an OT to supervise, they're in the dark really.

What do you find works to calm him....( other than screen time?)

The OT was on the NHS - they seem to just do the very basic, which is shit really.

With my DS what we discovered in that if he just has vestibular (movement) it really hyped him up - and you got more and more unmanageable behaviour, BUT if he had vestibular with proprioceptive, it had a calming effect. So jumping on a trampoline + movement, plus the deep pressure in the leg muscles, required to make the bounce.
Swinging - if you put him on a swing - he would be wild afterwards, but on a trapeze where he has to hold his own weight and swing, much better.

This however is really a thing of the past =- DS has missed alot of his normal activity and OT with XMas and weather and is not as well modulated, but that now equals a little bit of humming, and being fidgety and his concerntration not as good. A year ago he would have been bouncing off the walls, tearing around and then exploding, in school this translated to hitting. (whicj gives intense proprioceptive input.

One exercise that DS got given was seated rows using those strips of rubber they have at the gym, could your ds do that while watching TV?

My boy had hundreds of similar stims. They got worse if he was ill or coming down with something. The anti-social ones I believe in stopping whenever he is not in his own private space (bedroom, bath). It is EXTREMELY hard to stop stims (as they are ingrained habits, like thumb-sucking) but if you stop him with a "ssssh" or a "quiet hands" (while mimicking folding hands on lap) every single time, over weeks or even months, you may eventually " disrupt the habit" . I never went along with the view that it was a sensory need and shouldn't be stopped; I had a sensory need to smoke, but it wasn't ultimately going to help me. Think of him at 19 and work from that.

Porridge im not really sure what calms him, ds never seems calm, hes not aggressive or anything just always fidgeting and if hes not hes making little noises, the latest one is like a hiccup sound. Hes easily bored sort of fleets from one thing to another, hes thinks everything is 'boring' watching his dr who (we watch the same 4 episodes every day!) sometimes keeps him occupied but not much. Ive tried giving him things to fiddle with, silly putty etc but it dosnt really do anything.

Mrslaughan - He does like his trampoline as long as someone will do it with him otherwise its 'boring' he wouldnt be able to hold his own weight dosnt have much strenght hes not a fan of swinging really, intresting about hitting though, ds dosnt hit at school etc as he knows its not allowed but is always hitting his dad in play, dh will be messing about with him and ds will suddenly just punch him which dh dosnt find amusing!

Sickofsocalled - I understand what you mean but i dont want to cause him discomfort be forcing him to conform either ifykwim, its harder because we dont have a diagnosis for ds so no real 'reason' for odd behaviour.

JeffFaFa it sounds as if your DS is a sensory seeker....that could be for 2 reasons.
a) he under-registers sensory information so needs more to get the same effect as a NT person or
b) he has a difficulty with maintaining alertness, so needs constant stimulation to keep himself awake in order to learn.

Impossible to tell over internet.
Definitely sounds as if he would benefit from a full sensory assessment with a Sensory Intergration trained OT. Important that the person is trained to assess and treat. I've heard a lot of people on here who were sent from pillar to post by OTs who had an idea of SI but were not properly trained in it.
With luck, your child development team should have one.
Otherwise, are you in a position to go privately?

Sorry, JeffFaFa I read back over your posts again.

When you say he doesnt like trampolining alone and that he doesnt have much strength, that sounds like low muscle tone.
And the seeking to hit also sounds like he is looking for proprioception which usually goes hand-in-hand with low ms tone.

Could DH do more focussed messing about with him...e.g wrestling but adding in cushions/duvets for DS to wriggle out of, under and through? Allowing him to punch but only when DH holds a cushion in front of him? Getting DS to use his full strength for as long as he can (which may not be long). Would DS tolerate doing wheelbarrows? Or being rolled over and back on a gym ball so that he has to take his weight on his arms?
Scooter boards are another good way to get heavy work in that is self-regulated; and if you had the room in your house, you could set it up so that he scooters himself into a safe obstacle e.g. empty cardboard boxes, a pile of cushions, so he gets the crashing sensation he is looking for?

DS drives me potty with his flapping. I just tell him it is making me cross. Then I ask him 'what can you do?.

His answers will be 'do it quietly, stop doing it, do something else, or 'go upstairs to do it'. All fine with me.

Mine both stim more when they are feeling anxious or unsettled.

and also seemingly for fun.

They can both talk now and describe it as "fizzy" They feel fizzy. I don't quite know what they mean by that and they aren't able to tell me in any other way but I assume it's some sort of prickly feeling?

Yes. DS sometimes says he needs to get the sillies out!

I have acne, and pick at my spots when I am stressed or anxious. I sometimes eat chocate to make me feel better or drink wine. It's probably a little like that. However I needs to be able to control all of those things as there are times when they are not appropriate to do them, especially in certain company!

I have suspected low muscle tone as family have said he looks a bit floppy (ive never noticed tbh) and he cant ride a bike, hates cutlery (but has nice handwriting) etc but im not sure. I like those ideas and will get dh to try them out next time they are playing. Ds wasnt happy tonight, he came home from school saying he was sad and sick i went to do dishes and came back and found him under a coat on the sofa crying, he said the tv was too loud, thats never happened before. He was still sad though and said he didnt know why his brain wouldnt tell him, i asked why do you think your sad and he said 'i dont think im sad i am sad' :( he just dosnt tell me stuff and looks confused all the time

My boy self-stimulates a lot, mainly flapping hands, shaking head, blowing raspberries, biting hand. I do find it very stressful even though I know I shouldn't. He can be distracted from it by providing other stimuli but sometimes that will require fulltime input from me just to stop him, and I can't be his entertainer all day for the rest of his life.

Jeff, I am sad for your DS
Mindful that you dont have a diagnosis.... does it help if I tell you that my DS has a diagnosis of HFA/Aspergers and would be very similar WRT emotions.
He finds it so difficult to deal with anger/sadness/gets overexcited/overhappy.

Thats where I found How to Talk invaluable. It helped me to help him label his emotions. It has taken 2 years of plugging away at it, but recently he has started to say himself (without prompting) that he feels afraid of things or he would prefer something to happen. Not consistently but thats coming from a point where he had no language about his emotions.

Have you ever completed a sensory processing questionnaire with him? Like this or this more detailed one?

Thanks for that link looks like a good read, definatly worth it if its helps ds to discuss his feelings, its a really difficult area with him he will tell me that hes happy or sad or angry (they done emotions with him at school happy, sad and angry faces) but except for happy cant tell me why, he dosnt seem to recognise worry hes told me he dosnt understand if i ask him, i get alot of 'dont remembers' i asked him yesterday when he was crying if he felt sad like that at school as i dont know where it came from and he said he didnt know, i kept asking and he said he couldnt remember or didnt understand?and was getting more upset with my questioning . Ds does sometimes say that we are being too loud but usually loves loud tv sits practically on top of it loves loud music on his headphones etc and if hes ever unhappy about something is no stranger to shouting at you so yesterdays reaction was not like him at all.

I have questioned if ds is asd since he was a toddler, he sad all the early signs, routine, lining up toys, meltdowns over change, great long term memory remember meals we had when he was 2 never quite seemed to 'get' things. but alot of it improved with age, he was slow to talk, language still not great imo but very social, talks to everyone and anyone, until recently thought everyone was his friend but i think hes starting to become confused by that he told me recently he dosnt know if he has friends sometimes he does sometimes he dosnt and that he dosnt understand.