Advice needed - DS hurting friends at school

[TICKLETUMBLE]

Not sure what is going on with DS (probable ADHD with ASD traits also) . He has what school say is a fantastic day and then towards the end, has hurt one of his friends or a teacher pretty much daily for the last week.

How do you get through to a SN DS that hurting is not OK? He 'knows', but he just doesnt seem to think about it ....its like he thinks that rule does not apply to him......its usually beceause he is not getting his own way, having to take turns or people being too close and he just shoves, punches or kicks them.............he says sorry after wards when told to, but screams in the face of teachers when they try and talk to him about what he did.

He gets upset about losing break time or having time-out, but is not really bothered that he hurt someone.

If you ask him if he would like to be treated like that, he says no and gets quite agitated that someone would treat him like that, how nasty it would be and how sad it would make him, but does not seem to connect that everyone one else would feel the same way.

Help....he's been reported to the LA today as he really hurt a child in his class. EP will be in next week.......if he is not suspended by then...

How do i help school to help him not do this???

Maybe what is needed is more support perhaps someone who could spot that he is getting agitated and read the signs to intervene before anything happens. Does your ds have and 1:1 support? does he have a statement? He clearly needs more help than he is getting and awful as it is to have an incident reported to the LA that may help you to argue the need for more support to prevent incidents occurring. Dd who has ASD and can sometimes be aggressive has had very few incidents mainly due to the support in place. Situations that might potentially be difficult or cause issues have been identified and TA can then try to make sure that no other child is likely to get caught up in anything. Midday supervisors have also been told how best to intervene and the children also know what not to do. Dd does still have a consequence ie some time out if she lashes out and she does understand it is wrong. I know how awful it feels as dd once scratched one of the children who goes out of their way to help her. I felt terrible.

my dd does this and has had two bad incidences, school are logging it all to gain evidence for more support (although things have now changed as she will be moving to special school) also they note when so that they can look for triggers but she always does it at the end of the day too probably as she finds changeover times difficult.

the other thing in our case and not sure about if you find this too busy t the first couple of weeks of term are always worse.

should have said but the first...

you have my sympathy, it's horrible wondering each day what has happened.

He currently has 10 hours of TA support, which are scheduled time 1 hour in morning, one in the afternoon, and is kept an eye on the rest of the time really.

We dont have a statement ...Ed psych due out next Tuedsay who will be looking criteria for statementing............ No Dx but ticks many boxes for ADHD and some strong traits of ASD which are becoming more evident as time goes on. Only just starting on the journey of professional assessments. He is 5.5

There are incidents where I could predict he would struggle, but I dont think we have identified all the flash points yet...but he wasn't getting any extra support at the time. These things seem to happen when he has little support, and its predominantly social situations that cause the problems , although he can just be stubourn and not want to do the thing he is being asked to do , or wants the teacher sat with him to do it , must have the orange counters or he wont play the game etc.

He knows things are wrong beceause he has been told so, but I dont think he understands why really, if that makes sense? He will say sorry because he knows that is what is wanted etc. He is very impulsive . When he a asked what the rules are he can tell you, he just doesn't think aboutthem before he acts

95% of the time he is perfectly well behaved, but when he isn't, it seems to be getting more extreme.

Most rules are only followed because of being drummed in over a long period of time, and the no hurting rule seems to be the last one to be absorbed....he is impulsive and doesn't think about the consequences or repercussions. Its always a terrible shock when he gets told off for breaking a class rule.

I think going into school stating this is evdience that he is not getting the right support at the right time is the way to go. Hopefully with more assessments in the pipeline these incidents can be used as evidence to get more support, rather than an excuse to get rid of him (which seems to bethe way the school are taking it today)

it's so hard sometimes ime anyway, toUN pick behaviour. my dd seems to lash out in order to get out of situations that she doesn't like/can't handle but I don't necessarily think she knows why she does it.

we have had a bit of success with social stories then reminding her of whatever line it is from the story ie "hitting is not ok)

Does he injure other children when you're in charge? Probably not. Because you look after him properly

Ask the school how you're meant to stop him hitting out from 2 miles down the road, if the adults in charge of him can't stop it from only a few metres away

You might want to rephrase it, I'm feeling a bit arsey tonight

Keep doing what you have been. For our ds3, midday supervision has been key in managing difficulties and reducing anxieties. Keep your own records and details of what you talk through with dc. It can be useful when writing parental contributions and at meetings. Perhaps you can get opportunity to talk/meet with the ed psych. It's not an easy time. Stand tall and push for more support and evidence of what they're doing at school to support dc especially if after another incident they want to issue a fixed term exclusion. Also keep chasing any referrals and formal statement. Good luck.

Thank you for your advice.

Mariammama - lol. Well no he doesnt hurt other children when he is with me, he gets his attention moved, game changed etc. before anything develops, but then I
His saturday club dont have any problems like this either though, and thats about the same ratio of children to adults.

We are only just moving on from the 'oh he's young and maybe will catch up', to 'this is something that may need a statement' and we are all finding our way......the school seem to be inexperienced at dealing with this sort of thing, having to refer to outside professionals about what to do next and are not terribly good at distilling the advice into practical solutions... I seem to be having to reshape the stratgies based on input every time...........surely they have had ADD or ASD before sometime in their careers??

He has support to keep him focussed and on task for the primary learning actvities and that is working really well and he is doing exeptionally well academically, but needs more around simple interactions with others.

It is terribly frustrating, and upsetting that little DS is being mismanaged and its not just him that suffers as a result.

Hi Ticket,

Would suggest you read IPSEA's website as a matter of course as it has a wealth of information on it.

www.ipsea.org.uk

You can make a personal application to the LEA with regards to a statement; infact I would suggest you write this asap. Again IPSEA's website is helpful in this respect.

Had a chat with the Head, she agrees the right support is not in place yet, but no firm patterns have been identified to know when/where to focus (refocus) the existing support or ask for more.

The incident was reported to the LA beceause DS threatened a TA - told her his dad would kill her for removing him from PE......... coming from a 5 year old, unless they genuinely believe that is what would happen, surely that is over egging it?

Will wait for the Ed Psych report and take things from there.

The assessor from the behaviour unit that did the initial assessment that identified socail and emotional and fine motor skill development delay a year ago was in yesterday too, and DS was 'beautifully behaved' the whole time she was there so just told them to keep doing what they are doing.

It's good that you can talk to the head teacher. Even a school that appears inexperienced can offer hope if they're willing to try. Our ds3 who is 6 has suffered as he didn't 'tick' all the boxes for teaching professionals to even question the need of a dx other than naughty. Keep questioning and don't doubt your instincts. I'm convinced our LA has thought I've pushed for a statement unnecessarily which we got under 'besd' (behaviour, emotional, social difficulties) but this week we've had a dx for asd with pda traits. The sen code of practice is worth looking at as well. Some dcs need a statement to prevent them from being a barrier to their own education.

Hello reading your post & this could be me! My ds1 (6yrs) was exactly the same in his previous school I would get daily reports which would leave me dreading pick up time - seeing other parents hiding their disapproving looks... Now he is at a much better school (moved for work) and his teacher is fab & really motivated to teaching & engaging boys. Academically he's come on in leaps & bounds (no movement in reading levels for nearly 12mths) has moved up 4/5 levels since June!!!! I don't get told about every little thing now which was a huge shock to the system at 1st & when behaviours resurface (break/lunchtimes daily) they try to manage the situation themselves. They have more activities going on & more lunch time supervisors watching out as they know he finds unstructured times difficult to process. Before we moved I imagined him going to a behaviour unit / statement etc.... But he is only on actionplus 5hrs a wk 1:1 support & is working hard to achieve his targets. If it's possible perhaps you could look at an alternative school which would fit your child better with staff that understand...

You sound like your doing the right things though & I hope the ed psych input is useful. Feel lucky he is being seen, those appts are very hard to come by....

Sorry for ranting on x

Well, another school may be the answer...but finding one with space that is not on special measures is our problem, so we are having to work with what we have.

Found that this week the normal routine at the start of the day(calm start, come in sit down with a book ready for registration) has gone out the window and the children are coming in and playing, doing any activity they like and its loud, chaotic and DS is getting very excited beifre he even starts the day.

yesterday the normal structure of lessons was changed and lo and behold 2 red cards ............rocket schience it is not.

Change in routine = insecurity, uncertainty, pushing boundaries.......ho hum.

We soldier on............

have a look at the special measures schools

an up-and-coming, half-empty school
with a recently bussed-in super-headteacher
might be just what you need

I haddn't thought ofit like that. thanks i will keep an open mind and just tryfind where is best to provide the right support.

How is he hurting them? and is it always at the end of the day?

Do you know anything about Sensory Processing disorder? Could he be sensory seeking?

many people throughout his school career thought he had ADHD.

DS was the same, and he is sensory seeking....getting sensorial overwhelmed at school and then would hit, kick, punch, spit....which apparently all give intense sensory feedback.

Now he is much better modulated it doesn't happen. He started therapy March last year and we haven't had anything like it happen since about may/june....before that it was a embarrassingly common occurrence.

There is a a strong co-morbidity with both ASD and ADHD.......