School meeting tomorrow - a bit of advice

[sencop]

I have name changed for this but I am a regular poster!

I have a meeting with school tomorrow to go through DS's (ASD) IEP in advance of a visit from the EP on Tuesday.

We have a Tribunal in a month. One of the issues is hours.

School are giving DS full time support and want this reflected in his statement. DS is not 1:1'd all the time but his needs are very variable.

I went through DS targets with him today in preparation for the meeting. School had not done this nor had they planned to. I had spoken to DS about the targets myself when they were set last year.

What came out loud and clear is that DS does not feel understood. He feels that things which are agreed are reneged on and that he is forced to do things when it has been agreed he need not.

I have also had experience of the teacher/TA treating every incident as 'naughtiness' and wanting to know how to sanction it rather than understanding that the behaviour is inevitably ASD related and that punishments are futile.

They do follow my suggestions about positive behaviour management but this quickly disappears once things are back to normal. So that when DS tries really hard, like staying in the classroom all day after three weeks off , this is not even greeted with a well done.

I think it is down to lack of understanding and there are a great many wonderful things this school does.

But my problem is, how do I tackle this without upsetting everyone? There has been some training (they went on an Ambitious about Autism course) but every time he does something like not follow instructions or doodle on his book, they want to know how to sanction him. It's like they have not taken in anything about his difficulties and that as soon as he fits back into the class, he is expected to be the same as everyone else.

I feel the pressure to be the same is actually quite damaging as he is starting to feel that having an ASD is a negative thing and something which annoys people.

How do I approach this positively?

I should add that when I say 'punishments are futile' I mean that what helps is reinforcing positive behaviour and explaining expectations are what works.

Let me know how you handle this. I have a similar situation brewing and also don't want to undo any of the good side to the working relationship I have with the teachers. It's a tricky one.
Trouble is, the majority of teachers that I know, talk the talk, but can't walk the walk. They go on these courses. It stays in their heads for a while and then it's back to normal.
Add this to an increasingly futile paperwork overload to add to the teaching and their frustrations creep in. I would put money on the fact that they see the behaviour, sanction and then when they reflect think that they shouldn't have handled it like that - but then the damage is done.
Are the sanctions being given by the CT or are they predominantly being given by other staff he is in contact with?

CT and TA. They have drawn back from it after I spoke to them and a conversation which started 'we'd like to know how to sanction him' ended with them agreeing to reinforce positively with rewards for what they want to see after explaining expectations.

But rewards last a day and then he gets nothing and ends up back with expectations of normal until the next 'oh look he did this, how do we sanction him' conversation.....

They need to focus on how to get him to do what they want WITHOUT sanctions.

So can you agree no more sanctions?

And just bang on about this one point forever?

I'm thinking maybe playing it like this.
Get their good side - yes, when he does behaviour that is normally sanctioned, you can see that for classroom behaviour policy that other children need to see that it is not tolerated.
Explain that the sanctions will be for appearance as they are not understood and will have no effect on your DS's behaviour.
Then say that achievable rewards are a better way to ensure DS's self esteem and positive behaviour. Choose a form of behaviour and reward that can be monitored by you. Perhaps say that if he gets x points (achievable) per week, he can get a reward that you choose at home/weekend. This way they have to let you know if he has achieved and why if he has not. Explain that DS prefers to have his reward at home. Otherwise it becomes the 10 minutes on the computer - that can't be done today as class x are using it, then it never happens.
This way you get a weekly update/input?

'Oh look he did this'

You need to ask them why he did it, and insist their answer does not include any blame of him.

I think instead of telling them how they shoukd do it you just need to set the parameters and let them doing the thinking and 'engage' with the theory.

Yes. I think I will bang on that they need to set up a consistent behaviour management programme which rejects sanctions.

The troiuble with that Star is that they clearly feel they can distinguish between ASD lack of attention and just being naughty. So when they say, 'he was drawing on his whiteboard while I was talking' and I say 'why do you think that happened', they will say 'I don't know but I threatened him with detention and then thought I should ask you how to sanction him'.

Cue us all asking DS who says 'I like to draw on my whiteboard as it helps me to listen'. I then explain that people think he is not listening if he does this and he says 'I did not know that. I am sorry. They can take my pen'

Then you get him into school dealing with massive anxiety after three weeks off (cos of xmas and illness) and they agree he can work outside the class. He then complains that they told him 'I don't know why you're saying you can't come in the class, you are usually in the class' and then berate him for staying outside.

When he agrees with me that he will try a whole day in the class the next day, it wasn't even commented on.

I think the problem is he passes for 'normal' too well so they leave him to get on with it without appreciating the massive efforts he makes. But they are quick to criticise when he can't cope.

Grrrrrrr!

Okay. Perhaps encourage no distinction between ASD and naughty. It isn't something they must consider. Just follow the rules for every incidence. If they want to put it ALL down to naughty, fine. Just do as agreed.

I think you are right. They need to just have one policy and stop exploring distinctions. I won't say it but the chances are they'll get it wrong but I will say there needs to be a consistent policy as two policies is too confusing.

Got an ABA guy coming in tomorrow. Do you think he'd be able to help with this?

Also, wtf is wrong with writing on the whiteboard. Is it not a fairly NORMAL activity to doodle in meetings etc. Keeping our hands busy HELPS most of us listen. If not doodling, scratching, tapping pencil, stroking chin etc.

What on earth are they even mentioning it for let alone sanctioning him for it.

Exhausting. You are completely right. And you always have to keep positive and diplomatic even though you want to scream 'OMG do you not understand anything'

This is so un-PC, I'm a bit anxious about being seriously flamed. But since it works quite well, I'm going to say it anyway....

I tell staff that DS's behavioural age is 5. To pretend they have a Reception or Y1 child in their Juniors class, and act accordingly, so they wont go far wrong. Yes, acknowledge his academic achievements and verbal fluency, but they're about as relevant developmentally as a 7y old prodigy's maths A'level. And yes, he has friendships, but its like kind big kids playing with the younger ones.

No, no flaming here. I understand your point. How can an academically able child not understand they can't do x,y or z or need help with x, y or z? It's because they have a pervasive developmental disorder!

well we use a token system and its as much of a reminder for staff to reward the positives as its a system for ds. I think your teacher could use some visual supports!

How does that work?

ds has a board - three columns
10 tokens down middle white section
each positive one moves to left side from bottom upwards (where top 2 rows are green and say ds choice, and next 2 are red and say teacher's choice) rest white

if negative move token to right side of board (so they don't count)

if he gets 9-10 tokens out of 10 (green section) then gets his choice of reward eg computer time - they write a list of what he wants to work for at the start of session. if gets 7-8 gets reward (red section) but tutor's choice of activity eg book, less than 7 and no reward and start again

so about every 15 mins he will have got all 10 points allocated (if behaving well, be less than that if he's struggling) and will get a break and reward if he has scored 7/10+.

his aba tutor does it but we are trying to get teacher to take over in group work eg tell ds to put token on and why

sanction is not getting reward but he gets another chance straight away so its a manageable consequence - and they would probably break it down and give tokens more quickly to make him successful the next time

he almost always gets 9 or 10

losing a point was a bit of an issue for a while but its more of a warning / reminder for him - if you don't pay attention you won't get your choice

also set criteria of what tokens are to be given for / lost for is agreed with school in advance

So if something came up unexpectedly and he reacted in the wrong way he would not nec lose a point for that - points are given or lost for what we are working on so for eg staying in the classroom would be giving points regularly for staying on his chair and if he went towards the door might lose one - or even just hover the token as though its going to be lost and give a chance to correct eg sit back down.

Its also handy to 'train' the teacher to realise they have to reward the positive and to do so consistently and in a timely way - tbh the teacher struggles as often between noticing ds has paid attention nicely and awarding the point she has got distracted so she often times it wrong - it was easier when his 1:1 gave points but he's ready for 1:1 to fade back in some lessons now so we need the teacher to take over.

Also help the teacher remember your ds may need regular breaks within the lesson.

DS has big chunks of the day he does not need tokens now and can manage with just feedback and reward breaks but thinking quite a formal system may help get the message through to staff and then you can relax / fade it

ABA person should have ideas about a reinforcer system the teacher / TA could use

Punishments eg detentions are never an issue - we actually refused to sign the behaviour contract school sends home and just said ds has his own system which we will agree with school. He is the best behaved child in the class now because we have worked on all the rules so consistently!

for minor things you would just give verbal feedback and if not correct it himself then may lose a point - scribbling on the board when he should have been looking at teacher ds would get verbal feedback and if he kept doing it he may lose a point.

hope that makes sense

Thanks for this. Yes, it does make sense and it is really helpful. I agree, a consistent scheme which encourages them to reward what they want to see is the way to go!

I would like to know how to deal with this.

With DS1 I had the same problem as zzzzz - asking for help was a target on his IEP for 4 years. But 'awareness of the need for help' is a criteria that the lea use to assess severity in ASD. It seems to me that the school do this because they want to minimise the appearance of severity and don't understand the impact on self-esteem of being set unmeetable targets.

With DS2, SALT report that even in a 1:1 situation where he understands his narrative delay means that he is unable to put words together to convey clear meaning. So, of course, his 'success criteria' is to answer a question clearly in whole class discussion. To be able to do this he will be given advance warning and extra thinking time. ie no need to put in provison of LSA or other interventions to improve narrative skills.

Makes you want to bang your head on the table.

Good luck with the meeting.

Well I think it went ok.

I saw head first. I had hoped he would be at the meeting but he wasn't. I get the feeling he is trying to avoid me! But he is leaving soon and wants to redirect me to the nice but rather useless SENCO all the time.

He agreed that they shouldn't go looking to distinguish between ASD and 'naughty' and should concentrate on managing the behaviour.

SENCO made lots of notes!

ABA guy was great. Listened, brought people together and set out a way forward. He will COORDINATE yes COORDINATE the provision and pull external peeps together. He will also draw up a list of targeted behaviour so we can agree what needs to be worked on and what is not important to change and then set targets and strategies for that. He was very good about identifying that saying 'he had a good week' or 'he is doing well in the playground' isn't really good enough and is setting out areas where he can examine behaviour objectively e.g. Who does he play with, when, how often, etc etc.

I feel hopeful!

Save for homework, School have just put out a list of homework for the next few weeks. It is a heavy schedule. I just think homework is so unthinking and unnecessary and it ally prejudices children with difficulties and those without parents or technological aids to help them.

That sounds positive
I don't think problems ever end - our school teachers think aba are so expert they do nothing themselves - so now we have (another) meeting to remind them academics are the schools responsibility and the teachers do actually have to bother giving him work and even consider differentiating it.
We are in term 5 and have not done a single lesson plan which includes work for ds yet.
And the homework they have sent is a total joke.
We have the LA banging on about transitioning off ABA into school but when ABA are able to step back a bit there is a yawning gap where the school should be stepping in. And they have the benefit of fulltime 1:1 aba support for ds to do the work - all they have to do is plan it and ABA will do the rest, but they don't even do that. I am so sick of opening his homework book and seeing the same work every other child has got with no thought as to ds abilities at all. The only good thing is we are not reliant on school, if we were I would be tearing my hair out by now.
What really drives me mad is they a have a massive numicon kit at school and told us to get some at home to do in 1:1 - which we did - then they have not given us one single thing to do with it - and according to aba staff they never even get the box out of the cupboard at school and it must have £300 of stuff in it. Its like the idea of owning a box of numicon is somehow going to teach ds through osmosis.

That sounds so frustrating! I know what you mean about a full-time TA doing nothing though. We have that but it's not as if there isn't stuff to do, it's just that she doesn't know what she is supposed to be doing. The consultant suggested if she is able to back off so much in lessons, then it might be a good time to gather data!

The idea of someone else setting the tone is so helpful. I might get it right, I might get it wrong but I am sick of doing it myself and sick of walking on egg shells.

This is WHY ms doesn't work for our children. It absolutely isn't because it can't.

I resent the fact that my Ds is in a special school. It's a compromise like you wouldn't believe, but I'm spared this shite. I didn't actually have a choice about it when we were at the crucial point but I have had almost a year off now, off daily adrenaline surges just before opening Ds' home-school book. There's something to be said for that.

But I'm gutted. DS should be in a ms school properly supported. That he isn't will cost him.