Does this sound like epilepsy or just fits and daydreaming?

[GossipWitch]

I have a 4 year old ds, a few months ago I was called into nursery to pick him up as he seemed to have a small fit, where his nose started bleeding, his eyes rolled back and he got unsteady, and then bit his own tongue and lip, he was quiet and seemed unwell although no temp even though it did rise quickly during fit, and he was fine at school pick up time and perfectly back to normal.

A month later, I was called again into nursery where the teacher was more concerned about new fit that she called an ambulance, but by the time she had given details etc he had come round and was playing with his friends again and the ambulance wasn't needed, this time he had "made faces" at a friend and when she went over to him he was laying on the floor and his tongue had fallen back so she turned him at which point he'd started what can only be described as running but laying on his side, then got up and played. He describes it as "going to sleep, then being a zombie, then sleeping and waking up again", I took him to the doctors where they checked him and vitals and has referred him to a neurologist.

Then there was new years eve where he was playing a game, and sort of paused for a while, then stopped playing the game, seemed really confused and had dark shadows around his eyes and around his mouth and then slept for 6 hours.

Each time he's left with dark circles around his eyes and a blueish tinge to his mouth area, we see the neurologist next week, am I panicking over childhood fits or could this be more serious?

Hi GW

This sounds like seizures to me tbh. In fact, if a child isn't seriously ill and probably with a temperature, then "fits" = "seizures". There is such a thing as Non Epileptic Seizures but my dim understanding is it's a complex partly psychological condition, and he's a bit young for it.

However, there are seizures and seizures. Epilepsy, is a very variable condition and if there's no underlying cause (ie no reason to expect an underlying neurological problem) then it's quite likely to be the sort that is easily controlled by relatively harmless meds. What they call "ideopathic epilepsies of childhood" (ie seizures with no obvious cause that you may grow out of) tend to emerge at ... oh, 4 years old? And are relatively mild and are quite likely to be easily controlled. So maybe it's something else but tbh from my experience of seizure conditions, if that's what you're looking at you've pretty much missed the bullet.

Your neuro will probably ask for an EEG (brain scan - they stick electrodes onto the scalp and lie in wait for a brain tsunami - unsurprisingly they're fairly unreliable things) and may ask for MRI (sort of a magnetic brain x-ray, looking for a "reason" because if they can pinpoint a physical cause that can help them treat it). Both are fairly routine - EEG especially so, and you shouldn't read anything bad into it if they ask for the tests.

The neuro will ask you (if he doesn't, he should be fired straight away...) if there is any family history of seizures, including childhood seizures that have been grown out of or febrile convulsions. Worth asking around before the appt, it's quite an important question.

It does sound like epilepsy :-( my son had his first seizure last may at 13 months so we have been dealing with it for 8 months (although there is a chance he's been having them since 5 months).

There are many many different types of epilepsy and you can suffer from more than - mine suffers with 5 different types , is medicated but not on the right combination yet so still suffering.

Ask for a EEG although not always conclusive even if they seizure with it on and maybe an MRI :-)

Thank you, he had another absence yesterday at nursery, and his key worker used to work with adults with epilepsy, and she had said he was unresponsive, then sat up and his arms were trembling and then he started pulling at his lip, the whole episode lasted around three minutes, I'm worried that they're getting more frequent now and I still may have only seen one, but next friday we see a neurologist, so I may get things rolling then.

I'm pretty certain no-one in my family has them and unfortunately I dont know much about his Fathers family to know if it runs on his side, but I'm sure I can find out.

Keep a diary and try and film some, ask the school to keep a diary and try and film them too.