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Over reliance on memory- ASD question

15 replies

bee169 · 22/12/2012 23:02

DS, nearly 5, ASD and severe language delay, always uses memory to respond or complete a task. He always seems to think to himself 'how did I do this last time?'

I just don't know how to help him as his understanding is also very delayed but his memory is amazing so I can understand why he always tries to go with him strength bless him!

Any idea's would be really appreciated as I am completely at a loss. :(

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zzzzz · 22/12/2012 23:38

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bee169 · 23/12/2012 00:06

The other day I tried to teach him some simple prepositions ( on and under).

If I play a card game asking what colour is the item? he might label the item itself as that was what he did last time. It may take many tries for him to understand that I am asking for the colour even though I know he knows all his colours.

Again if I give him a pile of coins and ask 'what is it?' he might count them as that is what he did last time. Even though he is able to label them as money.

Does that make sense?

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bee169 · 23/12/2012 00:08

oops!! forget the prepositions bit! that was a hard one to explain - I should have deleted that bit!!!

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MummytoMog · 23/12/2012 00:42

Bless, the Mogling does this too. In her case, I'm pretty sure she doesn't understand what I'm asking, so she knows colours, but won't respond to me asking 'what colour is X' unless I cue her in and say 'is it a blue X or a pink X' and then she'll say 'orange X' or whatever colour it is. At the moment, I try to ask the question or ask her to do something and if she doesn't get it, then I give her another verbal cue or demonstrate what I want her to do. She's 3.4 so a bit younger, and someone might have a better strategy (in which I will be very interested!).

zzzzz · 23/12/2012 01:55

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boobybum · 23/12/2012 11:09

Maybe you should simplify things by using pictures when you ask a 'what is it?' question. When you present him with a pile of coins he has the option of physically counting them which may be confusing to him at the moment. With the colours maybe you could try matching games first, so start with 2 differently coloured pieces of paper, say blue and red, on 2 white plates (if you have them to make things clearer) and have a pile of similarly coloured pieces of paper and then give your son a red piece and say 'match red' or 'match blue' as appropriate. You may have to physically prompt him the first few times but make sure you reward him every time he gets it right even with prompting. Gradually fade the prompts so that you might just nudge his elbow or point to the correct plate. Once he has mastered those colours add a new colour. Eventually you could ask him to do the matches with different objects or have a pile of differently coloured blocks and ask him to give you the red one. .

bee169 · 23/12/2012 11:46

Thanks so much for all your replies.

Thanks zzzzz- will do!!

Hi Booby- just wanted to make sure I was being clear. I know he has the skill and is able to each task but the real issue for me is the question discrimination part. The knows his colours but if tested in a different way will struggle as he relies on memory to complete the task IYSWIM. He is not understanding/listening to the question itself.

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zzzzz · 23/12/2012 16:03

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boobybum · 23/12/2012 20:08

Hello bee,
Am I correct in thinking it's his receptive language that you are concerned about then, ie. what he understands?
How is he in other situations without any prompts? So, if you were to ask him to put his shoes on (and didn't say 'let's go out' first or show him his shoes), would he know what you meant and could he put his shoes on? Or would he need the other prompts first?
Or if you were in a different room to the TV and you asked him to turn the TV off would he understand?

chocjunkie · 23/12/2012 20:41

bee , dd1 (also almost 5 with asd and severe s&l delay) is just like that. i feel the main issue for her is just not listening. she is just not tuned to anything that comes in via her ears. she will also remember what we did last time and guess the question. i now alway try to vary the materials i use with her to preempt the question guessing and forcing her to pay more attention to verbal instructions.

also tought prepositions in pairs. i also use e.g. inside instead of in (too similar to on).

zzzzz · 23/12/2012 21:04

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AgnesDiPesto · 23/12/2012 21:25

Yes this is very familiar we had to teach all of this individually. eg wording a question differently would be like teaching the skill for the first time. Over time DS expressive language has become more flexible and less rote, and then his receptive understanding improved. He's 6 and this has really only happened in the last year

He often found matching written words easier than doing it orally - eg matching the words on, in, under to situations / pictures and then once he had grasped it this way he could move on to oral questions / answers. You can do it receptively too eg show me 'in the box' 'on the box' etc Sometimes learning the new skill (preposition) plus processing the verbal information plus processing the verbal response was too hard all at once. Often we only had to use written prompts a few times.

DS would always rote learn his programmes so we had to be very careful to very them and mix them up so he really learnt the skill and not just the programme. So making sure he could discriminate between programmes / instructions and not just taking the cue from the materials.

He rote learns easily and has an amazing memory. For eg he learnt about 8 songs word perfect for school nativity despite having no understanding whatsoever what he was singing about. It must be like me rote learning a song in Japanese he just remembers a string of information exactly as he hears it.

An ipad is great - I mean he still rote learns things from apps, but the sheer number of examples you can get through by letting him play on an app really helps

He is now 6 and is moving on to having to figure things out eg novel problems, pieces missing, things in wrong place etc. He finds this incredibly hard. Also to generating own ideas eg for drawing. We had to start with giving him options until he built up a 'bank' of ideas to pick from. He really couldn't do anything that was not rote learnt to start with but its coming.

We've also done a lot of work on observing others eg other children as a skill to help him -so in school if he's not sure what to do he will look and copy another child. However he's now got so good at this he now often under listens and copies even when he shouldn't!

Wh questions came a long time later and we are still just part way into this.

You might have to give him the start of the sentence as a prompt eg 'what is it' 'its a...' to help. Then fade this out.

The fact he has a great memory will help. DS is so like this and slowly but surely he is making progress.

Have you ever read anything by Temple Grandin. She very much describes learning things one by one and filing each example as a 'picture' in a mental filing cabinet and she will pick out a previous picture to complete a task given.She describes learning very much as a cumulative thing - learning things layer by layer until eventually it comes together. She is regarded as very high functioning as an adult so I find it very reassuring she was like this at a similar age. For example she says she did not realise all dogs were dogs - to her each was a completely new animal and she had lots of 'dog pictures' filed away and eventually she made the connection they all belonged in a group called 'dogs'.

The Autism Partnership book 'A work in progress' is very good at setting out ABA programmes for all of these skills and helps with the order to do them in.

zzzzz · 23/12/2012 22:20

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MovingOnNow · 23/12/2012 22:24

Hi this a really interesting thread for me. My five year old is being assessed for ASD but I feel that so much of his behaviour and issues come from lack of understanding. He had an ADOS test last week and it really highlighted this to me. There were lots of moments where I could see he wasn't understanding her but I knew if I did the same task at home and said it in a different way he would get it. But I suppose that's the point isn't it, by now it shouldn't need to be mum presenting t in mums way. Like one f the posters above, I find he will answer if I give choices. Ie, what kind of a day did you have, he would ignore. If I ask did you have a happy or sad day, he will answer happy day. He also looks for visual clues, I was asking him a question one day and just happened to touch my nose and he answered, nose. Bless him. I think he will be diagnosed ASD but I really think his comprehension of language is at the route of so much with him. You've give me something to think about anyway!

bee169 · 26/12/2012 13:22

Great to get so many replies on this- thank you I wasn't expecting so many :)

Booby- yes his receptive language does concern me alot but like chocjunkie I also feel is is not in tune with anything that comes through his ears.

Sometimes I will ask him to do a simple task, like switch off the tv and he will act like he didn't hear me. If i show him a chocolate, he will suddenly do what I asked! The motivation helps him but not always.

Choc- I remember reading some your posts before and I think we have been in the same boat many times- its a shame you are so far away or our littles ones could meet up!!

Thanks zzzzz- I see what you mean about it being a bit old fashioned. It has a finishing school feel to it! I think it will be great resource for ds.

Thanks for your help Agnes. Please let me know what i pad apps you have found useful. DS loves the i pad :)

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