Can you help me say something constructive in meeting with teacher?

[Surrealistrhinoceros]

Hi all

Thanks for all your help about DS not-ASD diagnosis, which now looks like 'attachment difficulties and significant social delay'. However, think many of the hfA kids described on here and you still won't be far wrong.

His teacher is usually amazing with him but we had a bit of a do on Thursday which I now have to discuss with her next week. Basically DS currently gets hysterically upset and anxious if we , or any other adult, expresses anger with him. Since the hysteria sets in at a slightly raised voice and dS would frequently try the patience of a saint, this makes life a bit tricky. I hasten to add that we have never done anything differently as a result of hysteria, so there is
no obvious pay off to the behaviour.

On Thursday I was in the classroom and his teacher quite rightly reprimanded him. Leapt into my arms sobbing. I did the whole 'don't be silly, miss X was quite right but it's all over just don't do it again ...' but we escalated into full scale meltdown.

Teacher (who I think has end of term exhaustion going on) obviously feels i didn't back her up and pandered to DS, and should have left him sobbing. I gather DS does not melt down in this way when told off at school outside our presence, so I suspect she now thinks he is playing to the gallery. Appointment for. 'chat' early next week.

Am I being utterly naive to think that DS may actually have all these distressed feelings when told off at school, but keeps a lid on it leading to consequent agitation and bad behaviour? I wouldn't suggest for a minute that they stop reprimanding him when needed, but would it be mad to suggest that his tA does some work with him around how to 'read' the situation when he's told off, and how to handle the horrid feelings without descending into meltdown or suppressed seething fury?

Would it be worth trying a social story with him to help try and explain to him what happens if he does something at school that the teacher might not be happy with?

www.thegraycenter.org/social-stories/what-are-social-stories

The TA might have knowledge on how to do these?

www.thegraycenter.org/social-stories/what-are-social-stories

We've used the book the 5P approach by Linda Miller to train DS to firstly recognise his own emotions, then his personal red flags and finally other people's. At each stage he's learnt to identify for himself the "red flags" that trigger melt down and has been helped to come up with appropriate coping strategies so we no longer hit "code red meltdown" stage in school.

It works on a simple traffic light system, with very simple worksheets provided for TA/teacher use. We haven't got there over night and will be continuing to work with DS right through his childhood and youth as social interaction becomes more sophisticated. We based the emotions training on the book the "incredible 10 point scale" - designed for teens and then simplified to a traffic light. (DS also had behavioral issues caused by typical ASD sensory issues).

If you go for 5P start VERY simple so that the child owns the traffic light definitions and build up gradually over time. Once the child sees it helps them (most kids want the adults around them to be happy with them, and want to feel good themselves) then it tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy of improvement. The adults MUST be 110% bought into helping the child at the amber stage straight away with no petty delays as it's a very "real time" system in the beginning. Nowadays DS just needs gentle prompting, but in the beginning it took constant vigilance.

It can be tied into IEP's e.g DS must request help when class noise gets too loud 70% time by X date. (The goal will be then altered to 95% but targets must be stepped, measurable and reviewed regularly. It also helps when they are worded so that the child understands them).

Hi, will have a look at both of those, thank you! I had already thought of social stories which have been suggested to us.

It looks as if you recognise this as a reaction that reflects real distress that needs working through, and isn't just a drama queen response to a justified telling off?

Thank you. I probably expressed myself badly (posting hastily while watching DS swimming lesson). What I meant is that I don't think we have ever failed to carry through an agreed consequence or let him off something we've asked him to do, because he is distressed. If we were in the habit of doing that I think it might be reasonable to suspect him of trying it on!

I do try and discipline him differently on the basis of what I've observed. It's really interesting to hear that he isn't the only child to react like this. It feels to me as if where a more socially adept child might think 'oh shit, teacher not happy, better change my ways', for him there's a great big surge of undigested emotion around 'I'm being told off/ shouted at' which prevents him from processing what the reprimand is about and therefore altering his behaviour long term.

Just trying to ensure that whatever I say isn't interpreted as 'my son is a delicate flower and you must never tell him off' when I know full well that said son is quite capable of sending sane men scampering into trees and that they generally have far more patience with him than I do!

Am I being utterly naive to think that DS may actually have all these distressed feelings when told off at school, but keeps a lid on it leading to consequent agitation and bad behaviour? I wouldn't suggest for a minute that they stop reprimanding him when needed, but would it be mad to suggest that his tA does some work with him around how to 'read' the situation when he's told off, and how to handle the horrid feelings without descending into meltdown or suppressed seething fury?

Sounds very constructive to me. Unless your teachers are different to the rest of the species, the key thing is to order you points. Point one has to be your explicity acknowledgment of their rights (to discipline him, to have the class in good order, etc). I reckon it's worth watching their body language to make sure that's sunk in.
Then, once you've earned your reasonable parent badge, move on to your suggestion using the joiner "As well as....." rather than "BUT....."

My ds (asd) is similar - hates 'getting things wrong' and overreacts to perceived reprimands. Sometimes there are things which he genuinely doesn't understand, but other times he does know he should not be doing something so it is 'normal' naughtiness.

It's a fine balance when you're trying to teach appropriate behaviour while also how to deal with their emotions. After all, it's fair enough to be upset isn't it, but as you say, still important to teach (as far as possible) a better way to handle the negative feelings.

I think your suggestion about the TA doing work around this is spot-on and constructive, and don't think you need to worry about being seen as an overly-protective mum. Bochead's suggestion of the traffic light thing sounds brilliant.

Might also be worth trying to see if there's anything underlying this - ie is he seeming disproportionally upset when it might actually be because he doesn't understand why he was reprimanded? If he's anything like my ds, has a very keen sense of fairness and rules, so might be even more upset if he genuinely doesn't know why he did something 'wrong'.

The other thing you can do at home is to frequently label your own and others emotions as things actually happen, so he can see that emotions (good and bad) are part of who we are and what happens to us all.

Also could try mind-mapping (bit like social stories but clearly demonstrate 'consequences' (not in a punishment-type way). You write it out, starting with the thing that happened, and draw arrows to the different pathways ds could have taken, leading to the different consequences of each choice he could make.

Bit rushed but hope this makes some sense!