Partner unsupportive? Seems rather commonplace...

[ChristmasTreegles]

I really struggle with DH's lack of understanding (and hence apparent lack of caring) for DS2's disabilities/SNs. He gets cross, impatient, and gets crabby and shouty a LOT. He is dealing with depression, but FFS it's been well over two years now, he's had plenty of time to get his head around it. I had maybe ten minutes to get my head around it and then had to simply deal with it and move on, as I have too many things to take care of to dwell on one thing.

I went to a parent/carer's meeting the other day at DS2's SS, and lo and behold, it was all mums there, and quite a few stated their partners did not seem to understand or support the SNs of the child or the stresses/work of the carer parent. They overdisciplined and used methods repeatedly that had already been shown to be ineffective (and then complained about the fact that they were ineffective, even though they already KNEW it wouldn't work!). Even when specifically shown by the carer parent the best way to handle a situation, they still stubbornly repeated the previous ineffective method, and AGAIN got upset over the fact that it didn't work.

Now, I really want to avoid being sexist here, as I know there are many many men that are wonderful carers for their children. But why is this so blasted commonplace?? If nothing else, wouldn't you think they'd opt for the most effective method, rather than tiredly repeating bad methods and then sulking about like a teenager and whinging about how much of a pain the child is? I mean, REALLY?!?!?!

Prime example... we just bought a Google nexus tablet. DH & I agreed yesterday that for now, it was only to come out when DS3 was in bed, so DS2 would have some time to use it in peace in the evening for a short period of time, without a 3yo trying to grab it from him. So what does DH do?? He brings it out afterschool today, with both boys sitting right there - they immediately start squabbling to use it, DH gets shouty and I had to tell him to just put it away. He is now sulking, DS2 had a monumental meltdown lasting literally 2 hours, and I had to deal with it. It could easily been avoided, but now DH is blaming me for it. WHY!?!?!?! I'm not the one that brought it out... I didn't even set off DS2's meltdown and I'm the one that had to cope with it for 2 hrs - DH just snapped at him a couple times so I had to tell him to leave him alone if he couldn't be helpful. grrrrrrrrr

ok.... breathe..... nope, still feeling stabby.... grrrrrr

DH relies too heavily on the electronic babysitters.

And he will always go for the easier short terms solution rather than the long term strategy, but overall he is supportive. No idea how I would have survived if he wasn't.

Have to say dp is also supportive though being over a foot taller than me he often underestimates how hard it is for me to physically restrain dd when out or brushing her teeth e.t.c he feels its not a major issue while I do but other than that we are on the same page.

I have a few guesses as to why this happens (and it is not all "his" fault, either).

1. In 2 parent families with NT children, there is almost always a primary parent - and usually, it is the mum. The other parent generally does less with/for the kids, and takes longer to learn all aspects of care and interaction. When one or more of your children have exceptional needs, there is more to learn, and the best way to learn it is through repetition. Think about all you do for your DCs - that was learned over time... and you have had FAR more exposure, kwim?

2. Men are apparently genetically programmed to fix things, and when they can't fix them, they deny the problem exists (or put the broken thing away never to be spoken of again). This denial is endemic - and the primary parent doesn't have to option to ignore or deny the problem, since it is in their face ALL THE TIME.

3. Men are just big boys... WRT the tablet - it is a new toy, and your DH wanted to play with it too. He agreed yesterday, but today he just wanted to play. I think of it as being the same as trying to get your child to reduce the number of toys they have by themselves... as soon as they get to the back of the shelf/bottom of the toy box, they find the things they have not played with in ages but just can't bear to part with, now that they know they exist again. If you want to try and figure a way to have it out so DS3 can play with it, once DS# has gone to bed, sit down with DH and DS2 and have a "grown up" talk about how to do it. DS2 might be more receptive if he is involved in making the rules, and perhaps if DS3 gets a chance to get his hands on it, it might not be so attractive any more...

4. and I hate to mention this, but it is true... the primary parent tends to take ownership of the exceptional child. They have a meltdown, we step in to intervene, they need something, we do it for/with them and in essence, alienate the other parent. Yes, DH is not going to manage things the way you do, but he is also not going to break your child if you step back. You say that you told DH to leave him alone... so essentially he is doing what you told him to do. I hate to be harsh, but we can't have it both ways... either everything is done the way we want it done, or we step back and give our partners the chance to learn by doing, the same way we did. Your way might not work for him, but his way might be just what you and the DCs need (and give you a bit of a break).

Case in point... as you may know, Bee is medically complex - all of the medical care she receives at home (for the last 4+ years) has been from me. Well, a couple of months ago, DH lost his job, so to try and help with household finances, I have been making crafts and selling them at shows in the area. Tomorrow and Saturday, I have shows for the first time that coincide with Bee's "intensive" care periods of the day, so, I have been spending the last 2 weeks training DH in her care. If I had been more hands off over the last 4 years and "forced" him to care for her, we would not have been in the place where I had to do this training, but this is not about him, it is about me monopolizing her care as my responsibility. If something happened to me, Bee would have had to be hospitalized as prior to now, he would not have known how to care for her on his own...

He has admitted he is scared of her care - when you are dealing with central IV catheters and the meds she has, errors can have disastrous consequences, but both of us need to acknowledge that as long as he is safe and covering all the bases, her care can be as effectively done with his routines as mine. This is as much about me stepping back and trusting him as it is about him stepping up. Same thing with you - if DH causes a meltdown, DH deals with the meltdown - even if that means he doesn't handle it like you do.

And... it is OK to feel stabby, just please don't "be" stabby, OK?

I feel for you christmastreegles, my DP has always been the one to say 'there isn't a problem with dd' 'you are just looking for a problem ' 'she will talk when she is ready' etc etc and I feel like I've been very patient the last year with him as he has struggled to accept there is something wrong. I on the other hand, like you say, just had to accept it and move on to helping dd rather than staying in the denial stage that he has. If I'd have listen to DP I wouldn't have sorted speech therapy, paed appointments etc when I did and would still be waiting now as its so slow. (dd is 3, has started speech therapy but is still pretty much non verbal and her understanding is not very good so is due to start in a language unit after Xmas on a 2 year waiting list for asd test)
Also with regards to the nexus tablet, we get things like that all the time too, I tell DP all the time, don't give dd chocolate/sugary treats etc before bed and he just acts like I'm being mean! He never puts dd to bed and is sat happily watching tv while I struggle for 2hours to get her to relax and go to sleep-aargh!

PMSL - I feel stabby fairly frequently lately, would never BE stabby.

As far as #4 goes - if he was simply dealing with it DIFFERENTLY, then that would be one thing. However, I had to tell him to stop as he was snapping and shouting at a distraught child. His idea of dealing with a meltdown is to shout and punish, NOT calm him down. DS2 is 6yo, with the emotional level of a 3-4 year old. Due to his sensory issues, he cannot cope with people shouting at him, he literally falls apart and gets hysterical. (and let's be realistic, DH should not BE shouting at him!)

Yes. I get the whole "fix things" aspect. But again, he's had two years to get his head around this. Surely two years is sufficient time. Seriously.

I try to give DH PLENTY of time and opportunity to get comfortable with DS2's needs and how to deal with them. In fact, I have deliberately gone out of my way to provide him with opportunities to be one on one with DS2, doing an activity that DS2 enjoys, and DH gets stroppy at every little hiccup and starts shouting, then refuses to continue. I struggle sometimes to see him as an adult when he behaves this way.

Yes, I'm the primary parent as far as care is concerned, but DH has plenty of opportunity to learn, but he's just not interested in being tolerant at all and is very "my way or else" with everything with DS2, which just doesn't work with his needs. I think the fact I'm the primary parent is irrelevant at this stage of the game - DS2 is SIX. DH has had plenty of time to learn how to deal with him - after all, his needs didn't just begin with his diagnosis - we've been dealing with this since DS2 was 1.5 to 2yo!! Saying he can't deal with it because he isn't the primary parent and hasn't had experience at this point is IMO a cop out.

DH is fab with DS but he's learnt to observe how I do things with DS or to ask me how he should do things.but I have a fab DH who has watched both the kids from a young age while I work(he works nights) and DS additional needs don't faze him in anyway.
He always attends meetings with me,asks questions and backs me up when he needs to....he sounds too good tone true but he does have his faults honest :)

OK, so if nothing I said fits (and Bee is 7, and been medically fragile since birth and IV fed since she was 2, so I am not sure that the time factors into it, but OK) then you need to give your DH a swift kick.

If what you are describing fits, then he is an emotionally abusive father - and to keep the kids in that situation is detrimental to them. Frankly, perhaps if you allow him to deal with DS's meltdowns and see that his response is hindering and NOT helping, perhaps he WILL learn - right now, all he is figuring out is that if he snaps at DS, you will step in and then he doesn't have to worry about DS any more, since you have just rescued him from the behaviour that is making him cross.

See what I mean?

Oh, I get that. But is it fair to leave him to deal with it to learn and putting DS2 in that position when I know it will be upsetting for him? I just don't think so. Which means it just continues.

Things have been hanging by a thread for a long time, were coming to a head, then DH started having chest pains and is now under medical investigation for possible heart problems - his family would crucify me and make my life a living hell if I left right now. He's supposed to be having CBT hopefully starting next month to get him coping better - fingers crossed it makes a difference, or I will have to make some unpleasant decisions. sigh

Yes, I KNOW it's detrimental. It's not doing me any good either tbh. But it's not always as easy as "leave him" when you have to figure in his clinical depression, no family support of my own in this country, and worrying about him having the children for visitation when he clearly cannot cope with them or keep DS2 safe (ongoing issue with DH not following through on safety issues - possibly due to massive memory issues related to depression).

strongecoffee Can you clone him please? You could make loads of money!!!!

osospecial sorry you're struggling with him in denial - I can see where that's got to be frustrating! Oddly, DH does readily acknowledge DS2 has SNs, but just seems to lose patience in dealing with it. It's like he thinks more discipline will sort it out sometimes, and other times he just shouts and then ignores. Just very inconsistent, which of course is a nightmare for a child that craves routine.

Treegleyone I could have typed your post word for word three years ago. I was shouldering/fielding all the crap to appease the damaging shoutyness when DH would overreact, get angry, mis-manage and bring the kids to tears. DH was obviously depressed and I was cracking under the pressure and walking on eggshells. It was not a happy place. Things plodded along like this for aaaaaaaages then one day I cracked (he swore at me) and I walked out and threatened to leave and told him I felt like a single parent and would not deal with his anger any more. The next day he went and saw his GP and started antidepressants and counselling. TBH the counselling was as much use as a chocolate teapot but the antidepressants have made it easier for DH to adjust his behaviour and now he shares the load of parenting and has a completely new attitude. He is now completely on board with all the SN stuff. It all comes from me, but he listens, takes on board and learns now instead of shouts. Antidepressants have allowed him to stop wallowing in self pity and learn what to do. Obviously no two situations are completely alike, but (((hugs))) to you. Like most mums juggling and unsupported and holding everything together we keep on and on and on and on until we reach the end of a line. Please don't fall of the end of the line and into a dark pit.... Yes he may be depressed but you are still a person with needs and the right to be supported as a wife and person and partner in the job of parenting your children, whatever their needs. Things are certainly not perfect in my world, DH is still on the antidepressants which he still needs, the root causes will just take a back seat til..... who knows....... I hope that you are able to be frank about your feelings with your DH at some point. You certainly deserve to be able to express your own needs and problems (and slight stabbyness). Til then allow yourself the odd stabby thought (or two) and keep posting about it. (((more hugs))).

hw xxxxxxxxx

handywoman Thanks. DH is on antidepressants - has been for quite some time, but I think we started out with problems as the first GP he saw messed him around dreadfully switching him to different ones that weren't helping, giving him the wrong instructions for one and giving him some sleeping tablets when he specifically stated he didn't want them (she told him they weren't). They just upped his meds a month ago - still hoping to see an improvement.

Hi treegle, just wanted to send you a honk... have hit this issue from a couple of different directions, previous D H had depression, I cared for him for 2 years and by that point it had me on my knees.. and we had no kids at that point. I think it was a big part of why we split...

Current (IYSWIM ) dh struggles with responding to ds's needs with patience and consistency.. I know a lot is because of his own disabilities and pain, but it doesn't make it any easier... I work on the principle that he is an adult, ds is a child, so he needs to put his own issues a side, just like the rest of us have to....

altho I do tend to say 'if you can't do this constructively go somewhere else and come back when you can' which kind of gives him a get out I guess...

I hope the CBT helps... (my sis has found it really useful)

Honks anyway..

I'm having a nightmare with dh. He will not even consider our ds could possibly have adhd even though the school and more importantly I think it! He has basically suggested its my problem for not having bonded with him, which is absolute rubbish. I know it's a lot easier for him to blame me rather than face the fact our ds has a problem. It's just crap for me as I feel very a lone.

treegles I would have thought that within a month there would be an improvement? Does your dh have an appt to go back?

Honking for you.

hw xxxxxx

Hello, same here! My Dh doesn't really see the woods for the trees. I am the primary care giver and as mentioned above we do tend to see more and get on with it sometimes shooting ourselves in the foot in the process because nobody does it better. I have tried stepping back (I have actually walked out of the house before because I knew Dh needed to get to know his children but I was finding it all so distressing) it does get to the point that everything just becomes un-necessary there doesn't need to be screaming, shouting, crying, throwing, threats, put-downs.

From a very young age I always vowed that I would never treat any of my children that way. I have been on the receiving end and it made me deeply unhappy and very insecure which to this day I still struggle with.

I remember a while back my Ds's teacher made a comment that his behavior was so bad that they would not consider taking him on a school outing (in fact I am quite sure they cancelled any school trips that year!) I was absolutely gobsmacked! I have never ever not taken my Ds anywhere, never had that thought that Oh no this will happen-that will happen if we go x,y,z (like my Dsis does with my nephew)...and what did my Dh do??? he nodded in agreement!! afterwards told me that he believes what the teacher had said because our Ds is a PITA! this just infuriated me because Dh only takes our Ds out alone if he is going somewhere where someone else does the caring while he does his own thing eg his mums, or his friends house when his wife is home. Ds is currently in the process of an assessment for ASD. We have had written reports from Autism Outreach members who went into school to observe mentioning Autistic traits, different people (teachers, EP's) brought the same difficulties to our attention, The girlfriend of Dh's friend whose son has AS (only met my Ds once) nodded in agreement when camhs was mentioned during a conversation because she thought the same but didn't want to say anything!. I have researched and researched until my brain is going to pop..then sat down and talked to Dh about everything I have read.

And still I watch the same things happen, the same arguments, same time every week....some people are just ignorant to others and no amount of leave them to it will ever change that so now I have just come to the conclusion that its easier to just do it myself but than everyone will be happy bar Dh because then nobody will listen to him, and he will feel like an outsider in his own home!!

Honk in you direction!
My oh tends to gloss over ds3's speech and language problems. "Oh he's doing alright", "he's going to get there in the end". I'm the one doing the worrying about what's going to happen when he starts school, going on courses and meetings about his progress. (He goes to a sen nursery)
There was one husband who attended the speech and language course, with his wife, so I think there are some men out there who do want to be involved...

DH is very hands on. When he's home, baths and nappies are his job. He still struggles with a lot of things, though. DS1 is rather discombobulated by nakedness and ends up rather hyper, plus can't help but fiddle with stuff in the bathroom, yet DH wanders of to do other things, then ends up shouting at him about water on the floor, emptied out bottles etc. It's taken a lot of "talking to"s to get through to him that DS1 can't just be left alone with a big load of jobs (which is what having a bath is to him) to do and no encouragement. I've had to be a bit PA as well "maybe, DS1, you'll have a bath where dad doesn't end up shouting at you, though I suspect dad might find that harder than you."

Oh - and I went on that 2 day Makaton course the other week and learnt loads. DH is convinced he couldn't do it.

Personally I have decided that it is just because my DH is a controlling ae that he is not supportive.
Where he works, he tells everyone how high to jump - and they do it. He hasn't quite cottoned on to the fact that at home it is the real world and that doesn't happen. He can't phone maintenance and say "fix it", and he sure as hell won't get his hands dirty.
He expects more than even an NT child would be capable of at their ages, then gets all angry/sulky/shouty when they do not live up to his expectations.
So I share the anguish of those who feel similar and those who have support

auntevil unfortunately, we're in the same situation here. It's intolerable, and I am not certain I can deal with it much longer. I will have to do some research into legalities. sigh