Can't get lap-top into ms secondary classes- what are the issues?

[supermum98]

The case seems obvious to me, ds needs enlarged, font adjusted print for his visual needs and to use screen reader software. Can't read TA's hand-written notes. Yet try as I might, nobody is listening/cares. Senco not responding to direct questions ie. what is the problem? Is it that the TA's don't want to carry it etc. Nervous about escalating to Head and fallout for NT kids and believe me have been a victim of that at Primary. Trying to get other professionals to push for me but they seem yellow bellied. Has any-one else had this problem and what was the reason/what did u do?

I have no idea what the problem is, but we have the same problem with ds1's primary school.

Ds's statement even says he should have a laptop for longer pieces of writing and the school actually stated his need for one in their statutory assessment advice. They've told me they have a spare laptop available and we have offered to buy one ourselves if not, but they still don't allow him access and stonewall us when we ask them direct questions about it.

The only thing I've managed to come up with as a possible reason for them not wanting to do it is that if they have regular access to a laptop/computer for classwork throughout the year, they then have a right to use one for assessments and exams, which is a pita for the school to organise and set up.

Sorry I don't have the solution. We are having yet another meeting tomorrow, but this time with the LA and EP present, so hoping to make some headway then.

I taught secondary and I think the following might be reasons the school is being unhelpful:
Having to rearrange classroom for access to plug point
Work done on the computer rather than in books easily gets lost
Other kids moan when one child is allowed to use laptop
Teacher may have poor IT skills and not want to have to help child use laptop

Of course non of these are fair on your ds and can easily be dealt with by the school.

Could it be your DS? Asking as my DS has a laptop made available - particularly for extended writing, but will not use it as no-one else is and that sets him apart. Image is everything if you don't quite feel that you fit in anyway - particularly at MS.

My DS used an Alphasmart Neo with no problems in primary school for literacy. It just uses double A batteries. The TA would print off his work and stick it in his book. He also used it for his Y6 SATs. The school were happy for him to do this as it meant he was more likely to scrape a level 4 in Literacy.

TBH, it's proven much more tricky in secondary. He has numerous TAs, obviously moves from classroom to classroom a lot and only really needs a WP for extended writing tasks, which are few and far between. He is supposed to be able to use a school laptop as necessary, but his TAs just seem to do a lot of scribing for him, which isn't very helpful. It's something I have to keep badgering them about.

It's interesting though isn't it, the amount of barriers that get put in the way in many schools, compared to the secondary in the news yesterday that has asked all parents to stump up for an Ipad for their dcs to use in lessons.

I understand the thing about having lots of different TAs etc, but that shouldn't really matter, as he should be able to either keep the laptop for the day and use it for each lesson or keep his work on a data stick and use it in whichever laptop is available for individual lessons (if they are departmental).

I know one of the secondaries we looked at has lots of children that use school laptops and they are checked in and out of the LS department as and when needed. They can also be returned there during lunch and breaktimes for safe keeping.

Yes there are potential issues around using them, but none of them are insurmountable and if they'd at least tell us what the problem is we could try and come up with some solutions.

Yes, moose, that's exactly how it should happen, but DS2 can never remember to go and get the laptop between lessons, which he only needs for English and sometimes History and RE, and as he has about 10 different TAs, this year, they rarely remember either. He has a memory stick, as well. Using a laptop doesn't seem to be common practice. But you've motivated me to have another moan about it.

When I was a TA in secondary, some of my kids used laptops for specific classes - I just had it noted down on my timetable to go via Learning Support to collect, (or check that they had remembered) en route to the classroom.

It was really no biggie from a TA pov, and I supported a different child in a different year group in a different subject (or group of kids) in every lesson.

That said, I was the one who instigated the laptop use, as I could see it would be a huge benefit for some of the kids. There was no parental involvement.

Contact the STA -VI that covers your school and ask them to discuss with Learning Support. Are you expecting them to fund a laptop? What does it say on his statement/ IEP? He will need an assessment by whoever does the IT support for VI or purchasing. I assume he needs to use this for exams etc as well, so you need to get a grip of it. How has he been managing to date? What is the reason that this has changed?

In the interim, ds can take the notes to the school office and get them enlarged on the copier (or the TA can). The teacher should be doing it as part of her routine class prep (each of the teachers that ds has for each lesson).

Anyway, ultimately there is no problem. Just a lack of understanding about need and support requirements. Same old same old.

But it's up to you to sort it out, because no one else will bother / has the time to bother.

Use the STA-VI.

Thnx you lot, cheered me up enormously, Senco phoned today, VI service had contacted her and clearly not managed to change her position, though I don't exactly know how much they pushed the issue. Felt thoroughly depressed, that I can't seem to get her to budge but feel she is wrong taking this position. Reading these threads makes me feel more confident to have another go. Could try DDA and reasonable adjustment I suppose.
She Went on about how interactive the lessons were and how TA needs to ask him questions. I said but surely she still has to take notes and all I'm asking is that she does it on the laptop. Senco's response was that one of TA's not computer literate and she doesn't want to change a good TA Also that the notes are being typed up later as mind-maps. I explained that these didn't include much but were just spider diagrams of key words. Senco clearly has low expectation and almost suggested he didn't need to learn more than than a few key words. Point is I need notes in accessble format to do over-learning at home and also to give him the independence to try and read his own notes. He desperately wants lap-top in class as he finds typed word a lot easier to read, which is also good for self-esteem. Have suggested to PD support that all SENS kids need IPAD in class. EJ will look into AlpaSmart Neo thanx. He has his own laptop to use in class by the way, will just have to get it stipulated in the statement that he use it in class.

Supermum, I think a laptop or 'notebook' would be better than an Alphasmart in secondary. Less 'childish' more street cred. X

Also the visual area of an alphasmart is tiny. I need a decent size screen and I'm just a speccy wearer, as opposed to someone who has SN in my statement. There's lots of useful educational software around from groups like abilitynet or cenmac to help the visually impaired nowadays.

Time to go above the senco's head methinks as it's educationally limiting to a child to not be able to record their own notes when they are able to do so. If you have to call for an early statement review with the LA present to amend it to include laptop use then perhaps that's what'll have to happen.

In general I'm a firm believer that TA's should be there to facillitate inclusion and to help a child gain independent skills rather than just babysit & spoon feed iyswim. If the TA is not computer literate then the school need to train her up asap- it's 2012 & IT literacy has been a stated government priority for both staff and students for a VERY long time now FFS! Never heard anything so positively wet - there are very few jobs of any description that don't require IT literacy nowadays.

Is there a reason he isn't using his own laptop to take his own notes then? (Apols, I seem to have missed the point somewhat). I assume he suffers from excessive fatigue as well as the VI, if that's the case? Maybe a small digital dictaphone type thing would be better than a TA typing, tbh. I had misread and assumed it so that he could take and read his own notes, and the TA would give more general support. (That was the position I commented from, tbh. The youth that I supported changed to a more independent position when provided with a laptop - responsible for their own work - me scribing for them wasn't helping them engage with their own learning etc. it's obviously great for some kids, but those who are able to type and don't have any physical issues need to be taking as much responsibility as possible on secondary. He's still pretty wee though - certainly by y10 I would be expecting him to be self sufficient as far as note taking is concerned?)

Or is he dictating the notes to the TA?

Totally agree about the alphas art, btw. If he is already using his own laptops, then an alpha smart is definitely not the way ahead. Way too limited and will frustrate the hell out of him. Dd2 sacked hers after a week in y2. For computer literate kids who need more functionality, an alphasmart is a kick in the teeth. They are great for some kids, but not those who can use a laptop with success and can stay on task.

I hope the school is ashamed of themselves suggesting that the TA is not computer literate enough to be able to do notes in some format on IT equipment!
There are so many voice recognition packages out there, that the TA doesn't have to be able to type to create notes. We have an app on the i-pad that allows my 5 year old to write up thoughts - cost is next to nothing.
I just see a school throwing excuse after excuse to try to stop a reasonable request.

If he needs a laptop in class with screen enlargement software get it written into his statement asap and then if its not used complain to the LA constantly that the school is failing to comply with the statement.
How visually impaired is he. Does he touch type? Does he have a camera to view the white board or does /should he have a link from white board to his laptop. If he is relying on a TA to read what's on the board to him this is pre historic. Has he had a full technology assessment.
Are you in touch with NBCS. If the LEA wont play ball tell them you want to move him to New College Worcester! Might scare them into action!

auntevil - which ipad app are you using?

I will have to check. DH has it at work at the moment.
He uses it a lot too. He often says what he has to do out loud, then it creates a list for him - he loves all that kind of technology.

Re-reading threads tonight after battery recharge and trying to decide which battle to pick first-I guess u know the feeling! Moosemama wondered how your meeting went on Wednesday? Had report from VI and clearly seems to think no need to have laptop in class for improved visual access. I JUST DON'T GET IT. She says a live reader (as opposed to a dead TA I presume), a scribe and his notes put on his laptop at a later date is good enough (these are only incomplete mind-maps and don't tell the full story mind u). What are they paying her to silence her I ask myself. No mention of how he feels about it, the fact it is humiliating to have some-one read out the notes to you in class and write for u. With a laptop he has a fighting chance of reading his notes and of getting his typing speed up, which isn't fast enough to type for himself yet. I think u r right I'm going to have to escalate and get in statement. Can I do this though as Senco has told VI it's not necessary for her to be at AR and if her report doesn't support it how can I get lap-top in statement. He has a laptop by the way. ?

Super mum, that's the exact reason I introduced laptops for kids I sued to scribe for - the job of the school is to increase independence as far as possible, not teach young people to be dependent and reliant on having an adult to hand.

You go, girl.

Good point mad, will construct my defence over weekend and push the independent bit, which haven't done enough of because focusing on visual access. They are being positively prehistoric in their approach, I think there is an element of technophobia going on with Senco but give her due she has won over the VI lady, with her usual plausible and persuasive/dominating techniques, verging on passive aggressive.

Supermum, as I understand it you are asked who you want to attend AR, so you should be able to choose to have Vi there.

I agree with madwoman, push the building independence angle, they are really pushing it onto us at the moment with ds approaching secondary and insisting he needs to build more and more independence, rather than reliance of 1:1 support - so I definitely think that's a good angle to take.

Your Senco sounds very similar to ours in her tactics by the way.

Thanks for asking about the meeting. It went well - I think, Inclusion teacher lead the meeting and after a bumpy start, read out the document I'd written detailing very simply what ds's provision should look like, based on the statement and got everyone in the room to agree that was what should be happening. That included use of a computer for anything longer than 2/3rds of an exercise-book page, as well as them actively telling ds he can use it, instead of expecting him to ask, as they claimed he has access, but chooses not to use it - as in he doesn't ask. That'll be because he thinks he can't use it unless directly told to, so won't ask!

Actions - basically exactly how ds's support will be implemented from January - are being circulated and everyone who attended the meeting has to sign to show their agreement.

Senco looked fit to explode by the end of the meeting, having had it announced in front of all the professionals involved in ds's care that they simply haven't been doing anything approaching what the statement says up until this point and also being caught out in a few whopping great fibs to both us and certain professionals in the process.

There are still a lot of issues, we were up against all of them at one point, as school have interpreted and put a spin on who supports and how often as them providing a small team of people he can go to - when in actual fact it's quite clear and specified in the statement that there should only be one person supporting him rather several named individuals, which he finds confusing and struggles to know who trust and who to go to when he's in distress. Some other issues as well, but fundamentally we just want him supported enough to get him through this year, so we can get him the hell out of there in July and hopefully never look back.

Overall I think the outcome was good - but then again - the proof will be if it all happens as promised when he goes back after Christmas.