Any SALT knowledge or other opinions welcome :)

[Lougle]

DD2 is 5.3. She's 'quirky' and 'individual'.

She got really very cross with me today. I need insights as to why.

So:

Background - DD2 has been off all week with a bug. DD3 insisted on going to montessori despite having a temperature of 38.5 degrees. Checked with montessori, who were happy to have her as everyone seems to have had it/has got it, so no point in staying away. When DD3 came out of preschool, we walked to the shop and were on our way home.

Incident - DD3 coughed repeatedly.

Me: 'Oh DD3, you really aren't feeling well, are you?'

DD2 (really cross): 'Why are you saying that I'm not poorly???? I am!'

Me: 'I didn't tell you that you aren't poorly, DD2.'

DD2: Yes you did! Yes you did! Yes you did!!!

Me: DD2, I really didn't say you aren't poorly.

DD2: Yes you did, I heard you! You said 'DD3, you really aren't feeling well are you, and I am not!'

Me: 'But DD2, of course I said DD3, you really aren't feeling well are you, because I was speaking to DD3.'

DD2: But why did you say I'm not poorly, when I am?

Me: DD2, I wasn't talking to you, sweetheart. I was talking to DD3, and I know that you are poorly, because I've been with you all day, but DD2 has been at Montessori.

DD2: Well I am poorly.

Me: I know that, DD2. Do you understand now that I was talking to DD3?

DD2: Well I do now because you told me about it!!

Help me unpick it, please. I know there is something not quite right there. I know it. People are telling me she's just 'August-born', but there is something in the way she's hearing or processing the language, I'm sure of it. This is typical of her - she gets so distressed because she hears something different to what is being said.

Lougle You have to do the documentation thing. You are wanting a medical opinion not an education opinion.

A list of symptoms with concrete every day examples (list those examples you have put here too) will be difficult for a 'panel' to ignore or at least they wouldn't want to risk the comeback if they did.

Educationalists are not experts in neurological disorders.

Do you have/can you access a SALT assessment?

Lougle, dd2 was so like yours at that age and I thought aged 5 she would become resistant to doing things a certain way at school. In fact she has become somewhat anxious about 'making mistakes'.

How's her reading normally? I know my N would try persistently to read Dr Seuss as it is concrete, visual and simple? In fact despite an advanced decoding age was still trying to read 'You Choose', the picture/discussion book!

HW x

I have a nasty feeling that the SALT gateway would fall in with the 'panel', Star. Added to that, I happen to know that the MS SALT is fairly dire (DD1 used to see her before DD1 went to SS. Sessions consisted of DD1 doing some beautiful joint attention - "Look....hoop....DD1 wants hoop...." and the SALT ignoring her attempts to communicate and saying 'Let's read a book DD1')

Handywoman, DD2's teacher has already identified that she lacks confidence. She often asks how to spell a word, and the teacher replies 'how do you think you spell it?' and DD1 gives the correct spelling.

Tonight, DD2 wanted some more butter, and I said 'I'll get you some in just a minute, DD2, but I want to eat my dinner first.' DD2's reply was 'Do you just want me to wait nicely?' It's like she has to get external confirmation that her choice of action is correct.

Her reading is progressing, I think. She's reading ORT 4/Blue band books at school. At home she read 'Green Eggs and Ham', only needing help with 'anywhere' and 'The Gruffalo' only needing encouragement to sound out tricky words. She also reads 'The Hungry Caterpillar' but she knows that one off by heart anyway!

I think she likes the reassurance of pictures which confirm she's on the right lines.

I've got to get over the 'imposter syndrome' feeling. I feel a fraud. But then I feel a fraud about DD1, and she goes to special school

Yes you feel a fraud. It's because you know that resources are scarce and need to be fought for and that there will always be someone with greater need. You would also prefer to believe that these resources that you might need are totally unnecessary or at least not as necessary as it is for others who you don't want to 'steal' from.

That's the system Lougle and your dd shouldn't suffer for it and nor should your family.

Thank you Star. Thank you.

Cause and effect is another area she struggles with.

Today, she came running down the stairs, crying loudly. She said 'DD1 hit me and she didn't even, even say sorry!'. I could hear DD1 crying also, so I asked 'Why did DD1 hit you?' DD2 said 'she just hit me and she didn't even, even say sorry!' So, I asked her 'Did you do something to DD1?' DD2 nods solemnly, and says 'I pushed her'. I ask 'Did you push her first?' DD2 says 'yes'. So, I explain (for what must be the 1000th time) that the reason DD1 hit DD2 is that DD2 pushed DD1!

DD2 doesn't seem to understand that she gets hurt because she first hurts her sisters.

Often, one of them comes to me saying 'DD2 hit/pushed/pinched/slapped me' and DD2's response is 'Yes, I did, but DD1/DD3 hurt me back!!!!!'

She doesn't seem to understand that if she didn't hurt them in the first place, they would retaliate.

Shameless bump with a question. Does it matter if my letter is quite long? Bearing in mind that it will be forwarded to panel, do you think I need to put everything in, or only 5 or 6 points? Do you think they'd read a longish letter?

TBH I would put it all in. If they can't be bothered to read it then they'll probably let you through just in case there is something in there that can come back and bite them on the bum later.

You can always put a summary at the beginning. Make sure you get any relevant red flags for ASD (or other things that are significant) in your summary. Make a big deal of them. You will have the time to explain them and their relevance or otherwise once you have been referred to the expert.

This panel is something GPs are doing, like LAs so that it takes the blame/accountability of individual GPs. It is basically a plea for budget expediture. Lougle honestly, you're not one to make a fuss over nothing. If anything you're the opposite. The panel don't know this so you have to make it clear that you can't take no for an answer because your concerns won't go away and from what you have written they are justified.

Lougle & zzzz
Can I just intrude and say thank you?
ds2 has had exactly the same problem than your dd today re 'accident' and 'doing things on purpose'.
Both knowing about this issue and the technique zzz talked about has helped me sort out again a fight between the dcs.
Very efficient.

Bump away. I agree with Star. Put a summary at the top referring using laymans terms to social communication, social imagination, relationships, restrictive or repetitive/restrictive manifestations, understanding of language etc. delving into and using any terminology you can think of from any SaLT reports you have seen that may 'help' the panel. Then go into detail to back up your concerns with details. Make it, ya-know..... obvious 'easy' for them!

Thanks. I do feel daunted. I guess it's like opening a can of worms. Shuddering at the memory of DD2 hiding in Nanny and Grandad's dining room and refusing to come out, because Nanny had told her that the man and woman in her lounge (my brother and his wife) were 'family' and they couldn't possibly be family because they don't live with us. No amount of explanation would pacify her.

Op can i ask was it the MCHAT you did with your dd? as ive been looking for similar for ds whos 6 but he would pass that one due to his age.

Also what you said about needing confirmation of actions rings true with me. Ds always says things like that and always finishes my sentances, eg - ds sit down there, ds - and behave? no your not doing that, ds - ever again? can you stop that please, ds - forever? no we are not doing that, ds - not today? etc etc....

It was the CHAT, not the MCHAT