would someone on the spectrum be able to do this ?

[thriftychic]

i have been remembering back to when ds2 was younger and he once tried to get his own back on ds1 for something by putting his beloved toy dog in a rubbish bag bound for the tip.

dp realised what hed done, took the dog out but pretended he had taken the bag as intended . when ds2 realised hed been to the tip , he broke down and confessed all in a panic . obviously he could predict how heartbroken his brother would have been. now, from what i have read someone with asd would not do that.

what do you think ?
ds2 would have been about 8 at the time .

big question mark at the moment whether ds2 problems are down to asd

Thrifty so many people on here have said the same and I myself am as confused as you .

Today I witnessed my Ds (poss ASD) help another child to undo a bag because he could see he was struggling to open it, later when I pointed out how kind that was he said he thought the little boy would be sad if he kept struggling, in the past I have watched him reduced to tears because of the most subtle scene of sadness in a movie (no words, no overdramatic clutching at the head crying loudly...just an older boy putting his hand on a younger boys arm) from that he derieved that they were brothers and the younger one had died (which he had but Ds did not see this bit) and he was very very sad, this is amongst many other things I have witnessed, Yet to everyone else my Ds lacks empathy and if I argue his case they just tell me it is the overly emotional things that he picks up on.

I strongly disagree and I believe he can pick up alot from peoples facial expressions, tone of voice, body language. but struggles if the person doesn't show any emotions (very straight faced all of the time etc).

We are in a tug of war with ourselves too but we are hoping that the professionals who can see what others would probably miss..will see what we see, and if not I don't really know how I would react if they did diagnose Ds as having ASD (not that it would change the fact that he is still my son and I love him more than anything) but we hold on to the thought that we can have the Dx removed. I just can not shake what I know about him and what strangers in his life don't know about him!

Hi fedup

As you will have read My Dd3 has ASD she is high functioning in fact we say she has Aspergers.

She is totally able to help people and in fact is very caring towards her friends. At school she amazes the staff with the amount of time she spends helping her friends. Three of her friends are wheelchair users and she totally gets that there are things that they cant do, like carrying a dinner tray. One of her friends needs help to have a drink and she has learned how to help him. Because she wants to.

Her having ASD does not prevent her from being kind and helpful but it does make it hard sometimes for her to recognise those people who need help and those who dont. She doesnt need to read minds to see that her friends need a helping hand sometimes.

Thrifty
Why not let the asessment go ahead and see what pans out?

My son has aspergers and he isn't especially typical. For example he has a small group of friends with whom he has reciprocal friendships. The issue comes that he doesn't see any other kids as 'friends' and so doesn't bother to communicate with them. He certainly has significant empathy but he doesn't know how to express that empathy, it isn't that he doesn't have any feelings. Having read lots of info from adults on the spectrum, that seems to be quite common in asperger kids.

Your sons certainly sounds like he has at least part of the triad- difficulty with flexible thinking (rigid, controlling, 'policeman' of others' wrongdoings) and restricted interests. So I think it might be worth investigating?

Ds1 fiddled with my jewellery and my engagement ring went missing. He went into a major melt down panic, as he had been told not to fiddle with my things because they are special to me. He has asd, and ADHD, hence the fiddling, but he realised how upset I would be if my ring wasn't found.

It was found, and I had to show it to him to reassure him that I was happy, and not cross or sad, and he eventually calmed down.

Your son probably knows that putting things in the bin is naughty, and once he thought it was irretrievable, he panicked.

And yes, the poster who said asd doesn't stop people being kind ....

Ds1 is VERY kind, generous to a fault with everyone he has decided is his friend. If I asked him for his pudding he would share it with me. But he doesn't always recognise when someone is hurt, or sad, or lonely, or upset, or put out. He only really recognises BIG BODY emotions, such as anger (shouty voices) or major sadness (tears) or hilarity (laughing sounds)

He used to get very angry with me for tickling his brother, because HE doesn't like it, and ds2 would be shouting "argh! Stop it!". Ds1 incorrectly assumed ds2 was distressed, because of the volume of noise and the words used, but didn't recognise the happy tone and manic squeals of joy!

Yes my Aspie can pick up big emotions like me crying and is veloquent about his own emotions. And he does practical kindness automatically (eg someone mentioned fixing a bag strap) but when I suggested that if he's lonely to find other lonely kids In the playground, I realised he just couldn't tell. 'what if they're just pretending?' he asked.

It would take a whole day of calm, non-accusatory discussion about the situation, as if it was all happening to someone else, to get such a confession out of DS1. And he owuld't confess, as such, he'd do the scooby doo thing of "I didn't mean to do it."

And, I forgot t mention - DS1 does the grudge thing in a big way. He'd quite happily put DS2 in the binbag, with all of his toys.

thankyou for so many responses! fedup you sound just like me !

ds2 has spent an hour with the psych and the psych said he thought he probably was asd and would go to see the school next. this was a different psych , a second opinion as the last one did the ados and deemed him fine , not asd. but the problems had continued and a camhs worker said we could have a second opinion.

he interviewed us also and said he didnt think he would need to see ds2 again for any more assessment.
thing is though , i was fine about it , thought i had finally an answer until i tested ds2 myself on things the psych had just told me about. i.e that he couldnt get a simple joke - he could ! that he didnt understand idioms - understood 3 in a row for me
that then made me worry , felt like maybe they were just gong to diagnose asd because we have been so persistent and at the end of our tethers with the meltdowns hes been having.

sorry if i have repeated what ive already said on here

Was it the official ADI interview? Did they ask a lot about early years?

Also have you looked up PDA if meltdowns are a problem?

i wasnt told but i think it most likely was the ADI from what ive read. when i mentioned to camhs , (before we saw the psych) about pda , i was told that it all really comes under asd . i have only met the psych once and answered all his questions but not really described the problem iyswim, All the discussing of ds2 over the last 2 years has been with the other workers at camhs , i assume the psych would have read the notes .

Well both ds and dd have pretty significant ASD but I'd say they would both be capable of doing what your ds has done. I know I have been amazed at times at the insight ds has shown although I have to say if ds had got upset afterwards it would be more because he feared a consequence than any concern for his sibling to be fair. Dd who is really kind and considerate would do the same and probably laugh but she wouldn't necessarily grasp that taking something to the tip meant a permanent absence tbh.

If PDA looks relevant to you, it's Worth writing your own comprehensive report/description on his behaviours, tying it in with PDA, and sending to all health profs for their files. PDA has v specific handling methods, whether it gets DX'd as PDA or ASD so if those methods work, calling it PDA for practical purposes will be helpful. Have a bit of a research - the theory behind pDA can really help with any ASD meltdowns.

thanks silk , cant seem to find alot about PDA especially not relevant to a 13 year old but i will do a bit more research. The main problem we have is meltdowns really. hes so dramatic a small thing is a massive thing to ds2 but also a bit random , sometimes i brace myself for the wreckage and hes ok !
think ds2 was sent to test me lol

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