Aspergers and Initiative

[OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos]

DS recently turned 12, just gone into Y8, and has AS.

He's the sort of boy that can memorise all sorts of wierd facts, remember random things extremely accurately and is very intelligent, but has NO common sense whatsoever. I always figured this was fairly common with AS, so I have always tried to take extra time to explain the obvious and it's never really been a problem.

Now that he's getting older I'm expecting him to think for himself a little more, and it just isn't happening! I have to spell out exactly what he has to do, no matter how many times he's done it before. Like when I say 'get ready for bed' he might put his pyjamas on, but he won't brush his teeth, because 'you didn't tell me I had to do that too'.

Or when he was getting ready for his first day back at school. I say, 'go and get your things, we are leaving in a minute'. He will go and get his phone, leant his blazer, school bag and PE kit in his room and come back downstairs and happily walk out the door. But then I ask where all his stuff is, and I get 'you didn't tell me I had to get all that'

It's like this with almost everything.

It's driving me crazy, and as always, I'm not sure how much of it is normal boy of this age behaviour or if it's the AS, so I'd really appreciate others experiences, or even better, any strategies!

It's really starting to worry me that he will never think clearly for himself and will need prompting to do everything. I've expected it before because he's young, but now he's getting older I need to encourage him to think for himself and take some initiative. I have no idea how to teach him those skills!

Any gems of wisdom, or solidarity out there?

Make a written checklist for things and get him to use it.
Sometimes it's the AS, sometimes mine used to like winding me up because he was a teenage boy. Checklists remove the need for nagging and leave little wiggle room for being sarky.

No idea but sounds terribly like my dh who's fav quote at me is "never assume"!
Dh does do ok in life generally but don't think he thinks things though at home as his so relaxed.
You may have to do check lists until he knows, that what we use with Dds

Thanks so much! Such a simple thing like a checklist had never even occurred to me.

We have them all over the house. I'm spending weekend doing new ones for dd1 now she has her new school timetable.

Lisa, do you make the checklists yourself or do you do them with your dd?

I'm thinking this could be a Sunday afternoon activity after we have been to the Paralympic marathon. I'm not sure whether to just do it myself or to try to encourage ds to think about what he needs to do to put on a list. I don't want to end up overwhelming him, or getting frustrated if he really can't think.

I'm finding it especially hard to relate to him at the moment but as usual, he appears to be oblivious!

What I wouldn't give to be able to get inside his head just for a minute...

I'm terminally scatty

Checklists and visual reminders is the way to go.

I have a white board from the £1 shop where I right what DS has to take to school each day the night before hanging on the inside of the front door. It means we literally cannot walk out the door without seeing it, so it's easy to check he has PE kit, guitar, lunch or whatever he needs for that day. ASD outreach think it's for DS's benefit, it's not .

Nothing wrong with a small row of pics by the bathroom sink to act as visual reminders to clean behind his ears, brush teeth, get undressed and put on PJ's (DS has put his js on over his clothes before now).

Post it notes in the PE bag, on the front of his homeschool diary.

Organised Mums do some organisers for kids in their range of wall calenders and diaries - might be worth browsing their site to see if there's anything in their range that could help.

Microsoft outlook was a godsend to me when I was working as I could schedule tasks for myself without the whole office knowing I needed the reminders of some fairly basic stuff like buying bread in my lunch hour. So that's another tool he could learn to utilise.

There's also lots of mindmapping software that's really helpful for school work that a lot of dyslexics find handy. Some of the best applications are free downloads.

Don't lose hope - I actually made a decent career out of project planning in the end, all those lil coping strategies for my personal life made me REALLY good at it.

My son is 13 and very similar, though he's getting better. He has ADHD as well as the AS dx which adds an interesting extra componemt to his disorganisation . We don't have the 'getting ready for school' issues as he's home educated, but there are naturally still lots of instances when he can't get himself organised or motivated. I play to his desire for independence and repeatedly remind him that he won't get it if he insists on expecting me to do everything for him. Experience has shown me that he can remember and be organised (sometimes) when he has to, as long as it's not too complicated and he's not under too much pressure, so backing off is a reasonably effective approach. He needs to know that his mum won't be there for him all the time so it's not worth relying on me - he has to find ways of working it out for himself (as bochead has done so effectively ).

We used checklists for years when he was in school but he was frankly too disorganised to even remember to look at them. He improved with the ADHD dx and medication, and we now use a wall timetable and we're starting on an appointments/events diary to keep him organised. It's an uphill battle though - I'd love to think he'll one day have planning skills like bochead's but I doubt it.

Oh, this is also one of my biggest issues with dd1 (11, AS)
At times, I have cried with frustration.

I have to be very literal when I give her instructions- no point in saying 'put your shoes on', or she will wear whichever she sees first, regardless of their suitability. A recent example is choosing winter boots on a glorious day.
So I say 'put on your trainers/ sandals;etc.

It's the same with coats-I have to tell he which coat to wear, it's not enough to say 'go and get your coat', or she will get a winter coat in the height of summer!

I,too, find check lists useful , we use them for all sorts of things.
I also find that giving one specific instruction at a time works too. Any more and she will get confused and anxious.

It's all very time consuming and can be frustrating, but after years and years, I've found that I naturally speak to dd in a specific and literal way when giving instructions.

However, we have had some hilarious examples of her not using her 'initiative' - dh and I find we have to keep a sense of humour, or at times we would lose our sanity

waves to streakybacon

waves back
Just about to answer your email .

Thanks for the replies, it's good to know I'm not alone. YY to the specific instructions!

I never expected this tbh, it was very difficult when he was little, but I found things got so much easier as he got older, we had the diagnosis and I could understand better. I though the only real problem we had left were about social skills, so this lack of being able to think for himself has crept up on me and come as a bit of a shock! You expect to have to think for younger children, and I expected to have to do a lot of supporting as he settled into secondary school, but when that went better than expected I thought everything was going really well.

Hey ho, another hurdle to cross!

It's times like this when you realise that autism really is a lifelong condition. Taken literally (as our kids undoubtedly would), as it's a developmental disorder it makes sense that certain aspects will take longer for them to grasp than their age peers, maybe considerably longer. There's an awful lot of pressure to be organised in secondary school but if we use the two-thirds rule, the average autistic twelve year old is functioning developmentally as an eight year old, so it's not surprising that they can't get their act together and be as organised as the rest of their year group, yet the expectation is still there.

You are so right Streaky. I'd never heard that the average autistic 12yo is functioning developmentally as an 8yo, but it makes sense to me as often ds2 who is two years younger appears way more mature than his brother.

It's just feeling a bit strange at the moment! I've never really had to worry about school, he's always been top of his class and after I realised that he wasn't bothered that he didn't have any real friends I stopped worrying about that too, because he was happy. But primary is SO different to secondary.

I was just thinking about this kind of thing this morning when I asked Dd3 to get in the car. She did get in but she just sat there and didnt put her seat belt on, she does this every time she gets in and I always have to say "Put your seat belt on". I know it is a really minor thing but she is nearly 10 and if I forget to tell her we can be driving down the road before she will think to do it.

I think I will but a sign in the car to remind her as it is driving me bonkers.

We use a visual timetable for getting ready for school and it works really well, it was recommended on here

The hard part for me has been finding a mid-way point between allowing ds to rely too heavily on me for everything, and doing nothing at all and expecting him to work it out for himself, neither of which (long term) is a suitable option.

What I do now is ask him if there's anything he might have forgotten to do. He's not relying on me entirely because I'm not telling him what he has to do, but I'm not expecting him to sort it for himself. If he can't remember I'll give him clues but only as a very last resort will I tell him outright. We've found the 'mid-way point' and he's starting to remember more for himself without my intervention.

That said, it's bloody hard when you're in a hurry NOT to tell him what he's forgotten. It can take him five or ten minutes to click and I have to bite my tongue an awful lot .

I have taught DS1 if I give an ambiguous command (ie one that he doesn't know why he has been asked it) to repeat it back to me. e.g. this morning I dropped a bottle as I was on the way to the bin, I asked him to pick it up, assuming he would follow me to the bin with it and put it it in. He says "I have picked up the bottle", reminds me to be more specific "and can you put it in the bin please".
I have to watch my tongue as it can sound like he is being cheeky, but actually it is just his way of saying, I don't really understand the instruction, this makes me feel a bit stupid, can you help me out. Next step, is working on him actually asking for help in understanding the instruction... but hey ho every little helps .

I asked them about this at ds's assessment and they explained it was down to poor executive function, making it hard for them to think about the future (even as in the immediate future), plan and organise.

Checklists work for us at home, but when it comes to organising himself at school he ends up needing a checklist to remind him to use the checklist!

We also have the literal response to instructions. Classic example on Thursday this week when I asked him to open the door to the school reception for me, as I am currently on crutches. As usual, I had to ask him three times, then it sunk in. He did indeed open the door for me, but that was it, he literally opened it wide and then let it swing and shut when I was halfway through it. (It's a blooming heavy metal fire door as well!) Silly thing is, I did exactly the same thing on the way out. "Ds1 please can you open the door for me?" so he opens the door, I get halfway through, with ds2 and dd behind me and bang, he lets it go! Doh! I actually thought about how much more specific I should have been the first time, but them my Swiss cheese brain made me forget to actually be that specific the second time. I am now sporting a lovely big black bruise on my arm to balance out my dodgy foot and crutches.

I agree with Streaky as well. Ds1 is 10 and we are really noticing ds2, who's 8, overtaking him more and more these days in terms of maturity and independence.