Do you think of aspergers as an intellectual disability?

[shoppingbagsundereyes]

Just watching Jessica Jane Appelby win an amazing Gold in the pool - her paralympic classification is 'intellectual disability.' I've never thought of ds' aspergers as an intellectual disability, if anything he is more intellectually able than his peers. If anything I would describe it as a social/emotional disability. Wondered what you guys thought?

I don't get it either. If the definition of having an intellectual disability is having an iq of below 75 , then surely they can't have AS as you have to have average or above iq to have AS. Maybe it's because people with AS frequently have spikey profiles and the lowest scores count but it doesn't seem quite right to me. I understand that people on the spectrum have difficulties with organisation etc like my Ds but I would have thought that they would be proficient in their special interest areas and over time learn the correct methods.

There is a similar argument in DLA applications though isn't there? The extent to which academic intelligence translates to functional intelligence. People have successful argued in DLA high rate mobility cases that although the applicant's IQ was over 70 their functional abilities came in well below this.

Its now widely accepted IQ tests underestimate academic ability for HFA as so much of the test is language based. But even though my DS can get some good scores on some parts of cognitive tests it does not compensate for the fact his functional intelligence is almost non existent eg he still does not understand if a car hit him it would hurt. He does not make good safe choices. He doesn't understand hygiene or diet. He likes running in races but does not understand the concept of winning, he just thinks its funny all the children are running together. But his physical motor skills are not affected (although they were delayed) in fact he runs really really fast, just not necessarily in the desired direction!

I was thinking the other day if he liked sport and could be taught the concepts behind it eg you are supposed to try and win - then it would be the ideal job. A coach would tell him what to do, what to eat, when to eat, structure his day for him and he just has to repetitively do the same thing all day every day. Perfect. His ability to use his peripheral vision and see people alongside without turning his head would also come in handy

I was listening to an explanation today - apparently in shorter distance races aspergers would not qualify as a paralympic condition as the person is competing on a like for like with a non disabled person. Basically dive in and swima s fast as you can.
However as the distances become longer and strategy & planning play a large part in the race & success or failure then the condition has a bearing on the result and the person is no longer competing on equal terms with a non aspergers athlete.

My ds is 11. He has what is sometimes referred to (by his consultant) variously as high functioning autism or more often these days, Aspergers. He is academically poor. Has a low score working memory so, maths is right out. He is emotionally immature. He has good commu citation verbally but social cumminication is poor. He has difficulty forming/keeping peer group friendships. He also has OCD.

He isn't a genius. But, his power of concentration, in a topic of HIS choice is astonishing. His long term memory, also astonishing. He's arty. He enjoys "play on words" and expresses this in cartoon fashion.

We recently watched a program about the earth's formation. He did lots of drawings but one struck me, in particular. The program's narrator had commented "underneath the frozen planet's crust, the earth's core was hard at work". My son was doodling away and I later saw the sketch on the table. It was a cartoony picture of earth, with the earth's core depicted as a harassed looking apple core (somewhat stressed and flustered-looking). A meteor had called to see if the "core" wanted to "hang out". The "core" replied "I can't, I'm working".

Now, to say my son is intellectually disabled is an insult.

I think this classification, especially for the Paralympics, could be better worded.

Could this be a difference in diagnostic language perhaps?

Difficult one, not insulting in itself, but possibly is when inaccurate. Like repeatedly mistaking a Kiwi for an Australian maybe? Ok the first time, but not after you've been told, had the map on the wall, and enjoyed several chats about Aukland...

Btw, uk learning disability is IQ under 70. WHO is under 75. Presume hers is 74

No, it's not an insult to say that someone has a cognitive disability. But an intellectual one? I'm not intellectual but got 7 O'levels and a couple of A'levels. However, I am an intelligent person, I believe.

Years ago, I remember the term ESN being written on case notes. It stood for "Educationally Sub-Normal". I kid you not. We actually had an ESN unit, at the hospital in which I worked. A terrible term.

Intellectual disability implies impaired intelligence. Cognitive disability is perhaps a better term.

DS had his ASD assessment and a cognitive assessment at round about the same time, so I had the results of his ASD and had a detailed explanation of his intellectual disabilities too. I assumed that not everyone with AS is intellectually challenged but some of those with AS may be.

I too do not feel comfortable with Aspergers/Autism being a category on the Para-Olympic games.

Hmm.

I have AS. I am bright enough, post grad level (in ASD LMAO). Do I consider myself to have an intelelectual disability? no BUT

I do have a functioning and processing one. I can quite easily struggle with something well below my supposed ability level- heck below most people's- because of the ASD and how I process things. I can't cope with several different inputs at once, for example, or accounts in any form. I need prompts and the like to manage jobs such as using a tille or filling in admin papers.

BUT here are the academic factors- AS and HFA are vanishing as diagnostic labels so Autism will be the defining factor; also there is a move towards using functional ability over intelectual when assigning places on the spectrum. My ds3 has a DX of HFA; frankly, it is a joke. he needs support and help at special school above the level of many of his autistic friends; he processes poorly, has no memory for academics, has frequent episodes of blacking out (not epilepsy, has been checked) that mean he misses up to 50% of the school day; his chances of independence and working are minimal, I can;t see how he wouldn't be paralympics material (if he could understand a sport well enough to be any good! he is very sweet, in the way a 5 year old is, he is 9) any less than someone with a generic dx of downs syndrome, for example.

Oh and it's widely known that Paeds seem to vary almost randomly in how they assign HFA / AS ? Autism as a diagnosis. Also, my ds1, AS, gets High rate Care DLA; ds3 gets MR Care. This is quite correct: DS1's need for constant supervision means that his care needs are more severe than ds3's, whatever labels they have (we are looking into PDA right now and also he ahs an eating disorder).

My won experience, of 3 with ASD, is that labels tell you little about the person, only the diagnostician.

troutpout: yes DS1 would succeed and fai; under those rules but equally so would DS3, whose life chances are more limited than the athletes I have seen simply because fo his functioning- he'd need a Carer within ten yards with a prompt board or would wander off!

why would it be an insult to say that someone has a disabilty, intellectual or otherwise? sorry dont get that at all.
surely its about something other than the "norm" or the masses, not better, not worse just a difference.
it may also be that you are able to get to the same end results (a high iq score for example) but via a different route, perhaps with things being adapted or questions worded a little differently.. thats all.

if the paralympics achieves just one thing it should be that disabled people are no longer seen as "less valuable" and therefore saying someone has a disability should not be seen as an insult.

AS is proposed to be discontinued as a dx from 2013, and all dx 's to be ASD. I wonder if this means our children's dx's will be taken away/ reclassified?

In the UK in swimming, ASD is not automatically recognised as a disability under the classification system. Nor are other conditions such as Cystic Fibrosis. You have to meet a specific level of impairment, such as having an ID measured via IQ.

See here

Crisis- no. It's for new diagnoses only: the general feeling is that it will be a bomus, eg by makling it impossible for some councils to have 'no AS / HFA' clauses in support as they do now (ours does).

As for intellectrual disability- it's just the term for what we know better as learning difficulty. In children, that's defined as IQ under a certain level, even that varies- often it can be as low as 60! In adults it covers anyone with a disability that affects their cognition regardless of IQ.

Anyone who doesn;t think that will cause confusion is a genius!

'no AS / HFA' clauses in support as they do now
What does that mean Peachy?

the Paralympic Governing Body

"The primary eligibility criteria
Based upon the AAIDD definition (above), the Inas Primary Eligibility Criteria to compete in intellectual disability sport is:

1. Significant impairment in intellectual functioning. This is defined as 2 standard deviations below the mean, that is, a Full Scale score of 75 or lower.

1. Significant limitations in adaptive behaviour as expressed in conceptual,

social, and practical adaptive skills. This is defined as performance that is at least 2 standard deviations below the mean of, either: a. One of the following 3 types of adaptive behaviour: conceptual, social, or practical skills b. An overall score on a standardised measure of conceptual, social and practical skills.

1. Intellectual disability must be evident during the developmental period, which is from conception to 18 years of age

Assessment of Intellectual Functioning must be made using an internationally recognised and professionally administered IQ test recognised by Inas.

Assessment of Adaptive Behaviour must be made using an internationally recognised and professionally administered standardised measure that has been norm-referenced on the general population including people with disabilities or through rigorous and systematic observation and evidence gathering.

Athletes must meet all 3 elements of the criteria to be eligible for consideration for intellectual disability sport."

So, it seems, that if your child with Aspergers/HFA has an IQ lower than 75, and they have difficulties in adaptive behaviour, and they can show that the difficulties they have directly affect their performance in the sport they compete in (ie. pacing for running), then they can compete in one of the prescribed sports.

However, later in the same document, it states:

"Particular attention should be paid to cases where there is a large difference between sub-scale IQ scores which may require the full scale IQ to be interpreted differently or invalidate it. Reporting should follow the
guidelines set out in the IQ test manual and analysis and comment should be included."

So, perhaps if a person with Aspergers had immense mathematical ability, say, and that brought their overall score above 75, but in most subsets they were below, they may still qualify.