Children on the spectrum doing things on their own terms?

[Hachi]

I wonder if I may ask a question. I am not that knowledgeable about ASD, but I would be grateful to know

• what does a child "doing things on their own terms" really mean?
• and what age would you start to see this - and in what way - and how does it differentiate between a toddler who is just quite into saying 'no' or doing his thing?

Every child is different... many NT children insist on doing things on their own terms as well...

DS2 (SNs, 6yo) has particular ways of doing things because he simply cannot cope with doing it another way - not always sure WHY he does these things. DS3 (NT 3yo) often demands to do things a particular way as well - mainly because he can be unbelievably stubborn.

Anyone seeing them both might not be able to tell the difference unless they knew them very very well.

Thanks Tiggles, that's really helpful.

I think and could be very wrong, that it would be hard to tell the difference in a toddler, simply because it is a normal developmental stage. But because ASD is a developmental delay a child continues to exhibit the behaviour when they aren't a toddler. As Triggles says certainly with my DSs it is because they 'can't' do it another way.

I am seeing both sides at the moment. Dd is 3 and NT and is currently flexing her muscles and trying to take control of everyone and everything around her. All very common and typical in an nt 3 year old.

Ds1 is 10 and has ASD, when he tries to control what we do or where we go it's very different. There is a real sense of panic that results in either tears or anger if we can't or don't do things his way.

As Triggles and LittleMissGreen said with typical toddlery behaviour they just 'want' things their way and might not like it, but can cope if they can't have what they want. With a child who has ASD, they simply cannot compute doing it any other way than their's and if they have to, it results if high levels of anxiety and panic - hence the tears and anger that people often refer to as 'meltdowns'.

My dd really tries it on, she will say flat out 'No!', whinge, wail, cry and tantrum to spectacular proportions at the moment, (little minx has even tried a few of her big brother's more obvious tactics on me just recently) but the minute she realises she's not having her own way and no really means no it's as if someone has flicked a switch and she accepts her fate! So with her, she responds to standard parenting techniques involving firm boundaries, rewards and sanctions.

Ds on the other hand will flick straight into total panic mode at the first sign of things deviating from the norm. His body language instantly becomes very obviously stressed and agitated and if we can't come up with a way round the presenting problem it will inevitably end in total 'meltdown'. With him there's no point being angry or imposing sanctions, because he has absolutely no control over it. It's the fear and panic taking over that results in him shouting, screaming and wailing. Frankly he is as upset about it as we are when it happens. He is just as aware as dd is of our parental boundaries, but is unable to work within them when it's something that he really can't cope with not being done 'his way'.

These days we know ds's triggers and can work around his 'rules' most of the time, so meltdowns aren't as common as they used to be. It makes for a happier ds and more peaceful house, but is just as stressful in other ways as it means we are all constantly hypervigilant and walking on eggshells.

Hi Hachi, I start out by saying that I'm really just starting to learn about this myself. DD (3.7) has recently started asd assessment.
I found it difficult to differentiate typical NT toddler behaviour (DS) from non NT toddler behaviour (DD). DD's therapists (SALT & OT & DIS) had talked about her doing doing things on her own agenda since when she began therapies at about 2.6. I didn't understand what they meant, probably because I had been used to DS having strops if he didn't get his own way. But as Triggles, LMG and Moose have said, he could be talked round out of it fairly quick.
Fast forward a year on, and I can see what DD ,being on her own agenda, means for her. After much work, I can get sometimes get her to follow instructions, if I ask in a particular way - but this doesn't always work. She will talk to me if she wants to, e.g. to request food, play, tv etc - but no real two way conversation. I am currently trying to work on getting her to describe past experiences to me;successful in that I'm sometimes getting a one word answer: e.g. park, playing etc.

I suppose the another aspect of her being on her own agenda is that although she is sociable and affectionate, this is also on her own terms. Whilst I think that she sometimes recognises that I might be upset, sad, scared etc, she doesn't appear to be particularly affected by the emotions of others.
This probably sounds very negative - but she is a real joy, and so lovely!
Hachi - whatever your concerns are, I wish you all the best. This board (I mainly lurk) has been a massive help to me.

Thanks to all - really helpful responses and lots for me to think about.

ime it varies with different ages, as to how it is expressed or manifests itself. In a toddler it's not particularly clear, hence the diagnostic minefield! As the others say, it's the lack of 'moving on' from the fairly egocentric stage into a more socially aware stage. Even then, some can do it and confuse you, like my ds1 for instance Most of the time, dd (NT 6yo) is far more opinionated, stubborn and downright bossy with her own agenda than ds1 (asd 11yo). Just to confuse you further

DS3 (ASD) is 3.9 and tries to control everything. If we have to do something he doesn't want to, he screams and tantrums and goes all floppy so you have to physically pick him up and carry him to where you want him to be. It doesn't look too different to "terrible twos" behaviour except that, unlike NT children (like Moose's Dd), he never seems to realise that 'no' means 'no', and no amount of cajoling, bribery or sanctioning works. He will only comply when he wants to.

my ds is 3.8, i think for ds it is how deep the need for things on his own terms is... paed and SALT can't get assessments from him because he won't do the tasks he does what he wants.

Ds even at nearly 13 Ds (ASD LD) struggles to do anything chosen or demanded by others. He has made progress - just not as quickly or inately as NT children with his degree of learning disability.

Everyone does EVERYTHING on their own terms.

The ASD affects the social ability to see the benefit to yourself of compromise, or doing something to please someone else.

I was thinking about this yesterday.
Ds has to do exactly the same thing when he leaves a house. He needs to come down with his socks, sit on stairs , put one sock on and fiddle till it ' right' ( this can take a while) , then a shoe and then repeat whole thing with the other sock and shoe. If something goes wrong or he has to go upstairs again, we start again.
We are away atm ... And that routine is sometimes a complete pia when we are away... But then I remember that we are AWAY ! And he is coping ok and joining in and making an effort to speak to people.