PE problems

[creamteas]

DS2 has HF ASD and dyspraxia. He is at MS secondary and doesn't have a statement (lost that battle) and gets minimum support in school (occasional TA and exam arrangements). In most lessons he copes.

But PE is a major problem. Most of the time it seems to consist of being in a team with a ball. Which basically amounts to at best being ignored and at worse being screamed and/or pushed over. He has been really really stressed about it today and all we were doing was buying new kit .

DS likes sports he can do. Sports with repetitive motions and no teams (like swimming) he can manage but these never seem to be on offer. He could probably manage to participate in what they do if it wasn't a recipe for bullying was managed better

Has anyone managed to get their DC out of unsuitable PE lessons without a statement?

Yes, but my DS's school was fantastic at reasonable accommodation. That said, the PE and MFL departments were the most stubborn and ignorant of all the teachers we worked with, and far more unevolved in their practice. They saw it as naughty child syndrome.
Took me, the form tutor, the SENCO and the Head to force some changes.
It usually took the part of him being allowed a less involved role, or being a helper. Plus a written record of the 2 hours of sport he did on Saturdays to show he was active in an activity the school didn't offer.
Sadly, it helped that my son was explosive and violent when pushed into meltdown, it gave everyone more incentive to come to a solution.

Thanks for the reply.

Not sure I will have any support the from rest of the school in arguing for change. He tends to withdraw then self-harm when stressed which apparently is not a behavioural problem . So as far as they are concerned, he doesn't need any extra support or adjustments.....

What are the SENCO team like at the school? Withdrawing and self-harm are both issues the school should see as significant and worth dealing with, rather than not their problem.
Can you get your GP to discuss the issues and recommend some compromises?
How good are you at being bolshie with teachers?

Running? If he does laps round the pitches, there's minimal additional supervision or hassle for them, and a nice straightforward repetitive solitary activity for your ds. Also one with lots of endorphins and a clear progression, cos with practice over the same distance, you can see your personal best improve nicely. He might even get the school some cross country points one day.

The SENCO understands but doesn't seem to have any influence on anyone. The good teachers get it, and the bad ones don't, and PE seems to be completely staffed by the latter.

GP is uninterested and he has been discharged from CAMHS as 'ASD is an education not a mental health issue' according to them.

I have tried to negotiate this before, but the answer is always that it is a compulsory subject and they don't have the capacity to change the sport on offer or provide additional support.

My arguments so far are that:

The current arrangements mean that he is not actually doing any PE so they are failing in that respect.

He could be set a separate exercise to run alongside the one on offer and they wouldn't actually need additional support (it is a bloody big field after all).

But so far it is not working.....

Creamteas, i feel for you, ds is the same, doesnt make a fuss but self harms to deal with stress.

Have you thought about getting a private OT to assess and write a report to highlight exactly what his difficulties are, might carry more weight, than mum says?

By Law they are required to make reasonable adjustments for your ds's disabilities with or without a statement

creamteas

What's the background re no statement?.

I would reapply for a statement yourself and at the same time look at other secondary schools. They are required by law to make reasonable adjustments.

claw thanks for the suggestion, the NHS OT reports we have have not helped.

Attila I did apply for a statement, but we were turned down at appeal. Academically he is average, and the LEA/School successfully argued that there was insufficient evidence of EBD to issue a statement, using his discharge from CAMHS against us. The private EP report was not taken seriously.

Changing schools isn't really an option. It took him a year to settle in where he is and in the important lessons (English, Maths, Science) he is doing well. These all have really good Heads of Dept that have been willing to support. He has now chosen GCSE options which means that he will be dropping most of the problem areas (chosen partially on that basis . So it is only really PE that is an issue. I can't risk the upset that a move would cause, just for that. But I don't want the torture stress that is PE to continue.

Creamteas, how good was the NHS OT report? Mine wasnt worth the paper it was written on. Did the OT actually do assessments and make recommendations?

Things such as assessment of eye hand coordination, position in space, visual processing, touch processing, body awareness, balance and motion etc, etc.

Although i know what you are saying, even if good recommendations are made, you cannot make the school follow them and they seem a bit reluctant.

But a good OT report and recommendations, could help you to get a statement and then they have to follow the recommendations.

The OT statement was full and identified all the areas of difficulty, but most of the recommendations were focused on help with writing (using a keyboard, exam arrangements etc). These have been adopted by the school as normal way of working, so this didn't help in getting a statement.

He was discharged by the OTs following an assessment as his difficulties were not severe enough to get any treatment.

So that's the whole story really, assessed, diagnosed and dismissed from every service going. They all acknowledge his diagnosis and note that he has difficulties but they are never 'bad' enough to get ongoing support.

In most areas he does manage, but I do wonder how much more he could achieve if he had support.

Ds has difficulties with handwriting and NHS OT recommended a scribe, keyboard skills that kind of thing.

Your ds probably has difficulties with things such as postural tone and joint stability, motor planning, sensory processing etc, as he has a dx of dyspraxia. Private OT recommended things such as direct input from OT, sensory diet, movement breaks, staff to be trained by OT.

A huge difference to what NHS OT recommended and the stuff statements are made of.

"I did apply for a statement, but we were turned down at appeal. Academically he is average, and the LEA/School successfully argued that there was insufficient evidence of EBD to issue a statement, using his discharge from CAMHS against us. The private EP report was not taken seriously".

When you mention appeal can you clarify this?. Where was the appeal held and who by?. Was it a SEND tribunal or was it the LEA digging their heels in by saying no?.

Despite this I would still pursue a statement on the grounds of his needs at school not being met. Use IEPs etc to show lack of needs being met. Statements are there also to help with social/communication needs not just academic needs so their argument that he is average (and therefore not needing a statement) is a spurious one. There does not have to be evidence of EBD to issue a statement either. I think that your LEA have acted completely underhandedly and dishonestly to you throughout.

Re PE I would go back to the SENCO and Head of Year again and demand solutions from them re this subject. Getting his pastoral support person if there is one for his year on side may be an idea as well. BTW is the PE in that school streamed?.

Attila we lost the SEND Tribunal. His IEP's won't show that progress is not being made, because he is making progress in most areas. Despite my best efforts, the targets he is set on his IEP are quite low, so he does usually meet them.

He is going into Y10, so only has 2 years left. I really don't think trying again for a statement would be worth it. It took just over a year last time to get to the Tribunal that we lost. Even if we were successful this time round, he will have left before it could make any difference.

PE is streamed and that is part of the problem. In most other subjects he is in the 1st or 2nd set. They seem to have the better teachers and the classes are quite and structured which he can cope with.

But for PE he is in the bottom stream, and the ethos seems to be to let them run riot on the field in the hopes that they will be better behaved in the classroom later. I do intend to push on this, but am looking for new arguments that I can use.

You could quote the Equalities Act and reasonable adjustments at them, you cant get a much stronger arguement than the Law.

When are the PE lessons timetabled for?

Why not officially withdraw him from these lessons and inform the LEA that you are doing so until appropriate accomodations can be made? He's unable to access the PE curriculum, and trying to without support is causing him significant distress. Perhaps you could collect him early or bring him in late one or two days a week and take him swimming instead or summat?

The attendance officer would get on your case, but sometimes that can be a good thing, as it officially flags issues up iykwim . I'd tell the attendance officer and the HT that my child would be coming to school or leaving at the appropriate times before withdrawing him from these lessons.

Well, keep fighting, but I hope the situation pans out like it did for my DS,
In Y10, the PE teachers focused intensely on their GCSE classes and didn't bother much with the low achievers. So my DS was attending a communication group as well.
I didn't find out until later that he'd been finessing things, allowing the PE teacher to believe that he was in his SCG during lessons when he'd been in the LDC or library and everyone assumed he was on a study period.
Not lying outright but slipping through any and every available gap.
With indifferent PE teachers, it was easy for him to get out of 3/4 of the lessons without anyone knowing for the year.

bocheadI won't know about the timetable till he goes back, but all the lessons would have to be in last period for me to be able to take him out as I can't take that much time off work.

fallen I wish my DC would do that, but unless it is timetabled removal he wouldn't miss lessons. Once he had a medical appointment in afternoon and insisted on going back in for the last 30 mins of the school day as not to do so would be against the rules!!!

I'm going to try to get a review meeting really early this term, it will be tricky as usually they focus on the new starters in the early weeks. Who knows, maybe we will get lucky and get an enlightened PE teacher this year.

'Who knows, maybe we will get lucky and get an enlightened PE teacher this year.'

DS has just pointed out to me that the next Blue Moon is on August 31st, so who knows, you might get lucky!

Hi creamteas, I can really only echo what other posters have said above re the 3 obvious areas to tackle with school

Bullying: schools are required by law to have a published policy on bullying, you can ask for a copy of the schools policy and highlight where they are failing to safeguard your son's safety and well-being during pe lessons.

failure to make reasonable adjustments in contravention of the disability discrimination act - link here to an information page produced with further links to relevant documents and definitions www.medway.gov.uk/educationandlearning/informationforschools/learningandteaching/additionaleducationalneeds/disabilitydiscriminationact.aspx

impact on attendance: if he is getting so stressed by the mere prospect or thought of pe lessons that even buying the kit is provoking anxiety, there is a very real possibility that he will become unwilling to attend school due to the stress of this one lesson.

Aside form tackling the bullying, there are two easy adjustments the school could make: providing a lsa to support your ds and monitor behaviour of other kids towards him or withdrawing him from pe lessons. Every secondary school will have a sen department possibly also a behaviour support unit or informal equivalent set up for students who cannot attend particular lessons for whatever reason.

Could you write to the school setting out your concerns and asking for a meeting to help resolve the issues? Partnership with parents are also often a useful support in meetings with school both in terms of advice and having someone to take minutes and be an independent witness during meetings.

GCSE PE with minor modifications might suit him, more theory and less practical. Easier to argue for an LSA then as well, cos school won't want their pass rate dragged down.

appendix b

Is he going to do GCSE PE?
I thought he was just trying to survive until it was all over.

Thanks for the replies.

The school is hot on bullying, and do take action after every incident (including internal and exclusions). But they seem to keep happening, as it is not one child or group of children that is the issue.

They do BTEC Sport not GCSE, but he's not taking it as an option. That would have meant extra PE and that was not going to happen .

I don't particularly want him to be in the behaviour unit as an alternative, as I know he won't understand this as a positive as it is the punishment area.

I just think they should be able to arrange suitable alternative activities for him. Whether this is alongside the main activity or perhaps with a different group timetabled at the same time.

Sadly this is a massive problem with PE in schools.

What happens is that teachers take a mixed ability class and teach a variety of games over the year. This is not linked into school teams, with there being another practice after school for those wishing to play.

I work in the indy sector and for games pupils are split into teams. Our fixtures are in school team and there are A and B teams. We even have a multi skills group, pupils who have chosen not to play the major team sports but still enjoy fun skill based sessions. The beauty of these sessions is that there is no pressure, no one shouting at anyone, they have a run around, learn some new skills and have a laugh with each other.

I don't understand why the state sector cannot do the above?

The school must teach games, dance and gymnastics, along with athletics over the course of the year. Sadly the requirement for swimming stops at primary school. I would ask to see the PE plan for the year and get the SENCO involved. There will be other children who feel the same, could you speak to maybe some other parents?