I'm still concerned about DD2

[Lougle]

She's 5 now. Turned 5 on Sunday.

She wanted roller boots. Really wanted them. She had been trying to use some hand-me-downs that were far too big. So we bought roller boots. She was delighted. Then I tried to take her outside. I was holding onto her the whole time, but she was scared. So far, so normal. But her reaction was out of this world. We were stood in the street, with her yelling at the top of her voice that she couldn't do it, she was too scared, etc. She wasn't even moving, and I tried to reassure her. Then I told her that she needed to lower her voice (Sunday morning, relatively early). She just couldn't do it. She completely lost control of herself. I can't describe it properly...but it wasn't just a tantrum. She was beside herself.

She was sharing a room with her sisters (recently moved, boxes everywhere) but we'd managed to sort the house out so that DD2 and DD3 could share a room, and DD1 has her own room. She was delighted. So Mum and Dad come to visit. Dad very jokingly says 'ooh a lovely room, just right for me.' She went wild. She was red in the face, shouting at him that it was her room, that they couldn't live here, that he was being mean to her. I said 'oh darling, Grandad was only teasing' but it didn't pacify her at all. She was furious with him for teasing (he really didn't mean to wind her up, he didn't know that she would react like that, because normally I quietly prep her about jokes, etc., although I hadn't realised that I do it).

She's got obsessed with 101 Dalmations. Wants to watch it every day, several times a day. I decided to put on 102 Dalmations instead, earlier, and she said 'I don't like 102 Dalmations because it's not the same as 101 Dalmations.'

She still seems to mishear, or just not hear, when we talk to her at times. I can't work out if it's an attention thing, a hearing issue, or an understanding issue. She's quite bright, I think, doing well at school, but I wonder if she self-selects activities that she copes with.

This afternoon, her cousins visited. I asked them not to go upstairs. But DD2 and her cousin of similar age sneaked upstairs. DH didn't know, and started drilling a hole in a wall for a curtain batten. DD2 was so frightened by the noise, that she ran full pelt into her room, jumped onto her bed and sliced her back on a radiator bracket. She had been going fast enough that it sliced through her t-shirt, into her back, and I had to use stop spray to stop the bleeding and steri-strips to close the wound.

Now, it was upsetting for her, but her reaction was once again beyond reasonable. She was yelling at the top of her voice, completely irrational, completely unreachable, if you see what I mean. It's not just the screaming and yelling...it's the way her eyes go...like flashing fire.

DD1's home carer was here at the time (a really lovely lady, experienced and extremely good with DD1, who is a tricky character at times) and she said that there's 'something not right'.

What do I want you to say??? I don't know. I don't know what to do. I mean I can hardly go to the GP and say 'DD2 is throwing hissy fits when things are slightly unpredictable', can I? At least DD1 was falling over. That gave me the excuse to say 'what's going on here?'

DD doesn't like her hands to be dirty either-hence her hand-washing routines [sigh]
She describes it as her hands not feeling 'right' until they are clean and clear of any debris.
If I ask her to put something in the bin, such as a piece of kitchen roll that has been used to mop up a small spillage, she will hold it between her thumb and forefinger (barely touching it). She will then not settle until she has washed her hands thoroughly.

What's your dd like with food-any issues there?

No issues with food, except that she can't get enough!! She'll hover over the other girls, and as soon as they lose interest she lines herself up to finish their leftovers.

Dd3 doesnt like dirty hands or washing them!! She wipes her hands on her clothes or mine

When I can get her to wash her hands she will try to just dip her finger tips under the cold tap. We have many discussions around hygiene but fortunately she has never been ill[touch wood]

Like siblings Dd she will hold anything she considers to be dirty very tentatively and will often refuse altogether to pick things up.

My Dd has many rules around eating but eats a very varied diet, she doesnt have a stop button though and I have to monitor her portion sizes.

Ok, so here is an example of what I'm talking about:

DD2's birthday was on Sunday. Her uncle sent a present in a PostPak box, which arrived today, addressed to 'Princess DD2'.

DD2 can read well enough to sound out the beginning of Princess, and recognises her name. She knew that inside, there was something for her, from her uncle, and she is very excited.

DD3 approaches, as I am unsealing the box, and says 'Ooooh I wonder what will be in your present, DD2.'

DD2's reply: "DD3, it isn't a present, it's a box.'

That sort of literal and inflexible thinking is DD2 all over. She knew she had a present, but because at that precise moment I was still dealing with the box, DD2 thought that DD3 had made a mistake.

lougle, she sounds (from every example you have given) exactly like my dd2.

dd2 would have said (well, shouted) thesame thing re: present/box at dd1. and if we tried to pull her up on it (dd1 is right too, there's a present inside, talk nicely etc etc ad nauseam) she would have retorted "but i know whats inside the box - it's a present. no need to wonder. that's just silly. she didn't mean the present, she meant the box" and so on.

dd2 cannot ever be wrong, btw - so we get totally convoluted explanations as to why she is right (especially when she is wrong)

Silverfrog, you made me . But you say that people think your DD2 is NT and you think she's on the spectrum but hiding?

I wonder if I just need to see how first few weeks of Yr1 go at school.

yes. we are on a long wait-and-see wrt everyone else, tbh. whilst trying our hardest to work on situations that we know will cause difficulties for dd2 later on in school.

when we went to see Growing Minds in the USA last year, we went with dd2 as the focus, not dd1.

they did not agree with us that dd2 is probably on the spectrum (she was just 4 then), but we do still think the jury is out. they did agree that she is not-quite-NT, and had some (what would be) serious issues that needed addressing. and we have been working on them ever since.

my biggest fear was to have her go through school ok-ish, with any issues being put down to immaturity, or have school adopt a not-bad-enough-for-extra-help approach during reception and ks1, and then as ks2 hits, and the work ramps up, have a sudden "oh shit, what do we do now that she hasn't settled" meeting. so we are upfront. we share dd2's difficulties, and our concerns.

dd2's reception teacher was fab, really listened to our concerns, and seemed able to separate out the usual 'this will settle down, we see it often' from the more quirky dd2-isms (which were often completely surprising for the teacher, and things she would never have predicted).

I know she has done a comprehensive handover for the yr1 teacher (who I have yet to meet), and so we re on a wait-and-see too. but teaching dd2 coping strategies at home, and teaching her to deal with eg not always being right (or at least when to accept that someone thinks you are wrong ), and not always being the best, or how to ask for help when unsure, etc.

and lots of our games and puzzles are geared for lateral thinking, or speech/language related, so we spend a lot of time talking things through

Well DH was quite horrified regarding my suspicions. Then...today he saw the box thing. He said 'mmm'. Then, just a little while ago, he found that the newly arrived little toys that Uncle had sent DD2 had been left on the floor and the puppy had chewed them up. Literally had them 30 minutes.

DH came to me and whispered to me 'watch this...I want to try something'.

So he approached DD2 and said 'look at this'. In his hand were the chewed up bits of her toy.

She just gave a slow grin, a shrug of the shoulders and 'I knoww' with a sigh. There was no show of being even slightly upset, despite her liking the toys when she was given them. We said to her 'are you sad?' and she again gave a slow grin and slowly nodded her head while holding this wierd grin.

I don't know...it's just not cricket

Lougle
What you say re your dd remind me of my ds1 at the same age.
He was dx with dyslexia, dyspraxia and asd.
I dont say this to worry you, but to point out that a dx often changes nothing.
Ds1 gets no 1-1 or specialist interventions despite dx.
We help him ourselves and he had done so well over the last year he is like a different child...or rather a happier and more stable version of the same child.
Is she at school yet? Have they said anything? Ime year 1 is usually where problems become more apparent.
Good luck x

Hi Badvoc, I'm not worried, so thanks for your reply DD1 went from 'parents are paranoid' to 'significant developmental delay with epilepsy' in one day so we've trodden this sort of path before.

She has finished Yr R. Did really well on the Foundation Stage Profile, but I fear that the ability to self-select activities and the 'free play' has masked any emerging inflexibilities. I also think that the fact that she has an August birthday has excused some of her behaviour, because the staff say 'oh we can sometimes see that she's still 4'.

I agree that self selecting acitivities can mask issues. This is something I have been working on at work with a LO last term.

I think this is also the reason why Dd3 coped relatively well at preschool.

I got told that a lot too as ds1 is a June baby...lots of "oh he will catch up" when he demonstrably wasn't :(
He also - and I think this is very common - was able to use coping strategies whilst at school and some of his behaviours were only reall seen at home.
Is she year 1 this year then?
I know with ds1 it was in y1 when the more formal learning came in that he came really unstuck, or rather when the school had to listen to me!!

Yes, year 1 this year.

Another example:

DD2 is obsessed with 101 Dalmations. She's watched it at least 30 times in the last couple of weeks.

We get to the scene where the puppies are born. Nanny comes out and says '14 puppies...one has died '

DD2 has just said to me: 'Mummy, Nanny is teasing, isn't she? She's saying a puppy has died, but it hasn't it's still alive.'

So I say 'No, DD2, she thinks the puppy has really died. She's sad'

DD2 says 'well but it hasn't, so she's just teasing'.

Then, a minute or two later, she says:

'Mummy, why is the man saying 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm just so sorry Pongo'?

I reply:

'Well he's sad because he thinks the puppy is dead, so he's telling Pongo how sad he is.'

'But Mummy, the puppy isn't dead. He's still alive. The nanny was just teasing.'

My ds1 also got a bit obsessed with 101 Dalmatians...used to watch it at least twice a day at one stage.
He goes thru stages with DVDs...even now...ATM its DVDs about ww1 and ww2.
His questions can also be quite repetitive...ATM its a bit of a routine we have to go through each evening...
"mummy you will check on me at 9.30 won't you?
"yes ds1 I always do"
"can I come and see you if I am still awake at 10?"
"yes ds1"
Sigh.
Every night.
For months now.
Oh well :)