oppositional defiant disorder - tell me more?

[bochead]

My extremely anxious (sensory issues + past physical & emotional abuse) has I think been given this label in addition to the ASD. The report is so damn badly written it's hard to tell tbh. I'm worried it'll lead to totally inappropriate strategies being used in school to manage him. I take it to mean a kid that is deliberately defiant of authority whereas DS is actually v. eager to please with abysmal receptive language skills iyswim.

Before Mum demonstrates truly "oppositional" behavior by kicking off good & proper can you give me your thoughts on what this term means please? I'm sleep deprived and short fused at present anyway due to other pressure that have nought to do with DS right now anyway iykwim and don't wanna make a tit of myself if I've completely misinterpreted the term.

In the information I have read they were talking about refusal to comply and having trouble with authority figures but IME anxiety associated with ASD could cause these behaviours.

I would definitely be questioning why a child with ASD would be given this label. I agree that it could cause issues at school because your Ds might be refusing due to anxiety rather than defiance.

I would contact someone and ask for the report to be explained if it has been badly written. Proffs are supposed to make their reports easy to understand and not use jargon etc.

I once wrote to a paed and made it clear to her that I wasnt happy with what was on the report and requested a follow up meeting to sort it out.

Sorry you are having to deal with this.

I'm sure I read on here that only one hospital in the uk can diagnose ODD. Was it Great Ormond st? Someone will come along soon who is an expert

I have heard of oppositional traits occasionally being a possible co-morbid of asd, but as a parent, I would be v unhappy indeed if there was any possibility of the effects of a language deficit being misconstrued as somehow behavioural. I also agree with medal that if your child does seem to be avoiding demands etc, that it could well be anxiety driven rather than "oppositional". I think the fact that this label has come as a surprise to you is quite telling that it's not the right one tbh.

Interestingly, the NAS seems to strongly dislike the ODD/CD label

www.autism.org.uk/labels

Ds sometimes appears oppositional but it's generally because of anxiety and his lacking the imagination to foresee the intended outcome so he'll refuse rather than take a leap into the unknown. It's not a label I would be happy with tbh because it suggests consequences and punishments might be used whereas ds actually needs reassurance and support.

DS can be extremely oppositional and defiant and his school were convinced (due to just talking to another SS teacher who didnt know ds or see him) that he had ODD. Disasterous is what I would call their handling of him.

The School even put that he didnt respect "authority figures" in there sum up of him. Fortunately Maudsley didnt see it that way. He goes to authority figures for help, will go up to any adult instead of a child. Most of the defiance was due to the fact that he gets sensory overloaded or just wont ASK for help when he is confused, stuck or upset or cant do the work as then he doesnt have control and has to admit failure, so it escalates to a "NO not doing it!" the next day as he wont be caught out twice or subject himself to something again. Yes it can be portrayed as defiant but for a totally different reason and anxiety based iywim. But of course with the wrong strategy ie. consequence or more demands of complying results in agressive "back off" sort of behaviour and a run and hide away.

A friend has been told her child is on the autistic spectrum and most likely has PDA ... Is this the same? It sounds like it could be.

insanity summed it up really well as relates to my son methinks.

In terms of management he often refuses initially out of fear, but is fine with a bit of reasurance. Historically he's been a "bolter" not a fighter iykwim. Same report diagnoses ASD and puts his receptive language skills broken down as 2-5 centiles. It also mentions his sensory stuff.

Those for whom English is 2nd language often find DS easier to manage, as they keep their sentences shorter, and verbal instructions simpler iykwim than native speakers. Punishing a kid when he doesn't understand the instruction in the first place is totally counter productive.

I don't think it's pda tbh as DS's temperment is almost a little too eager to please. Just poor receptive language and some sensory stuff. Bless him, but he's not that complex . If you KISS it and keep him away from noisy, crowded environments he's actually better behaved than many NT kids I've come across.

DS is the same boch take him out of the class noise to a quiet room and he will understand and respond accordingly. Put him in the class with the teacher talking the TA talking and the kids talking and the anxiety creeps in. It builds slowly and then he bolts out of nowhere. He loves "jobs" will gladly help someone, take stuff to the office or help the handyman etc. Its only in the classroom and unstructured playtime he cant cope due to social and sensory.

He can only deal with one step instruction not a whole speel of an explanation as he is lost at the first word and if he doesnt get it shuts down.

I would definately ask the proffs to define the report more. Bless him poor mite you only just finally got something on paper for him so he doesnt need any more misunderstandings any more than you do.

Am I right in thinking ODD is usually connected to childhood trauma/abuse/neglect etc, a reaction to anxiety from that? Whereas PDA is a Pervasive Development Disorder in itself (an atypical ASD)? Because PDA is less well known and there Is history of abuse, perhaps they have just hung the ODD label. A lot of kids with PDA have been dx'd with ASD, in the absence of more specific assessment.

I.e. both PDA and ODD come from anxiety, it's just a question of where the anxiety comes from.

afaik ODD isn't connected with anxiety or abuse at all, it's a way of labelling defiant behaviour.

ODD is a precursor for a label of anti-social personality disorder, used mostly for kids who go onto get the latter label in adulthood as I understand it. So NOT what you want for a kid who isn't spiteful, vindictive or prone to pulling the tails off cats iyswim. ASPD is considered almost incurable.

He needs protecting from any hint of a repeat of his experience at his previous school. A label like this leaves him very, very vulnerable, as it effectively excludes anxiety as a root cause of behavior.

Behavioral management techniques for a child with anxiety based challenging behaviors are totally different than for one with ODD. This is key.

DS can be helped with his anxieties, and since he's left the abusive school and been at a school where teaching staff "got it" the difference in him has been amazing and wonderful to witness on so many levels.

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