Starved of oxygen at birth - is this a factor do you think?

[tanfastic]

As is evident from some of my posts recently we are having terrible problems with my son with behaviour/social anxiety and his stammering. We've only recently asked for help from the HV - he's 4.3 and starts school in September. She has said that his behaviour is severe and has referred us to some parenting team (for parenting classes I assume, she mentioned Triple P course). She also said we could probably benefit from help from CAHMS but said they may not take him on due to his young age (she was waiting for a phone call back but we've not heard from her since). We also have an assessment with SALT on Thursday.

Every day with him since he was born really has been a real struggle. We've often thought it was due to the way he was born. I got diagnosed when I went into labour with severe pre-eclampsia and had a C section under a GA to get the baby out. He was born not breathing and fitting and had to be resuscitated. We were told he may have brain damage as a result but the brain scan came back okay. He was under the paed for the first year of his life but then discharged. The paed said he had suffered hypoxic ischemic encephalopathy at birth which is just a fancy name for deprived of oxygen.

We've always thought that his problems that are really starting to be noticeable now he's reached four stem from this but obviously we can't prove it.

Does anybody else have a child with special needs to who had a traumatic birth or was starved of oxygen?

ASD also runs in my family but as you are asking Dd1 was feet first breech got stuck and was eventually delivered battered, bruised, purple and cold by forceps.

She has no dx but was nearly Dx'ed with ADHD at 9 and I believe she also has Aspergers.

Dd3 was back to back and also got stuck but because of an experienced midwife she didnt need intenvention but she was brusied and very quiet for a few days.

She has a Dx of ASD.

Funnily enough both my girls who were delivered wonky have issues and are left handed. My middle Dd was a water birth, very clam and relaxed and is very NT and right handed.

Wierd or coincedence ?? I dont know.

Interesting re left handedness. Ds (difficult ventouse birth) is left handed and has AS, dd lovely calm birth is right handed and about as NT as they come

Dyslexia, left handed with some autistic traits. Also had difficult forceps birth and had to be got out quickly due to fetal distress and low oxygen. Would have been emergency c section if they didn't succeed with the forceps. Came out very battered and bruised.

Hmmm, I was actually thinking of starting a similar thread myself.

My DD who is 5, is more than likely on the spectrum. Her issues are mainly social. In fact, i'd say that's her only issue now.

I had an uncomplicated pregnancy, but a very traumatic birth. It was very fast, but when I was fully dialated her head was in an awkward position and they tried forceps and then vontouse(not sure of spelling), but her heart rate had dropped to barely there!! I'm surprised they tried the vontouse actually because she was severely distressed by this point. However, when she was delivered, they checked my placenta for oxygen levels and said they were normal. I felt like something wasn't quite right with her from then onwards though.

On the other hand though, we also have undiagnosed autism in the family, on dp's side. Dp possibly being one, dp's dad i'm almost 100% sure of.

My DS is 4.3 and suffered HIE at birth too. He's been seeing a paediatrician every so often since then. I'm a bit surprised you were discharged after a year though as it took my son til he was over 2 for any problems to be recognised. His main problem is v mild cp affecting his legs which he has splints for, but over the last few months he does seem to have developed a stammer which I will defo be mentioning next time we see someone if it continues.

My DD was discharged by ped when she was 6 months old, couldnt even sit up and had a clenched fist!? anyway I kept at it and fought that she wasnt being discharged and asked for an MRI. We had a horrendous birth, everything was fine went 10 days over, into hospital to be induced, on the monitor, thought things didnt seem right on the monitor as this was 2nd birth so had some inclin, midwife had all sorts of excusses, paper jam, baby moving around (what frikin room that was left???!!!!) etc etc, husband pulls emergency cord and demand attention, low and behold it's a bloody cord prolapes!!!!!!!! midwife left us for 20 min +.... had an EC, DD was in a right mess swallowed meconium & had to be recus, I ended to be bleeding out & ended in surgery for 4 hours. Poor DH was just left in a room no updates etc. after some days DD had head scan and they said everything was fine and we were all very lucky. MRI shows multiply injurys & DD has CP.
Now in process with a solicitors, hope DD has some justice, she is a fighter bless her

tanfastic Many of us consider the birth to be a factor, if not 'causing' a disability, triggering it in a predisposed child.

But, - even if it WAS caused by the birth there is nothing at all can be done now to reverse that. You may be able to prove negligence, you may even be able to prove that the negligence could have caused the disability. What is more difficult and essential for a claim, is the ability to prove that it DID.

And then, the amount of money is unlikely to ever be worth the stress of getting it.

So, I suppose what I am saying, - is move through this phase quickly. If you have energy to consider your life, use it for planning forward and researching how you can do the very best with what you have, not getting cross and upset about the past.

My DS was dx at 20 weeks anomaly scan with hepatic calcification. (bowel had burst and leaked around the liver causing it to calcify). We were sent to Kings to see Prof Nicolaides. We were more concerned with him having Treacher Collins Syndrome (TCS) like his sister. It turned out he also had ventriculomegaly (brain fluid areas being higher than they should be). His was borderline. We were monitored several times, assured that he didn't have TCS.
41 weeks I give birth to him naturally, he came out in a rush at the final push, damaged his neck muscle in the process (a condition called Torticollis). He did have TCS as it turned out, and I saw lots of doctors about the Torticollis and nobody picked it up. His liver was clear at birth and the fluid areas had regulated themselves. I believe that there is a link to the ventriculomegaly and his ASD.
We take each day as it comes, and try to introduce things slowly to him to help him understand the world at large.

With regards to your DS, this may have been said already (and if so I apologise for repeating!), but starting school can be a very traumatic thing for them, especially as he's been at the same nursery for four years. The stammer may well be reoccurring because of anxieties about starting school.

My DS2's delivery was the most stressful of my three. He was born via ventouse after getting stuck and going into distress, and has a massive lump on the top of his head which he still has now, although his hair covers it.

Deep down I do think that this is the underlying cause of his problems, but I try not to dwell on it too much because its too painful and in the past I have wasted a lot of energy focussing on it.

In our case I actually think its the other way round. I believe that the cause of the disability was the cause of the traumatic birth, and that this has led to CP. I will never prove it though.

There is an HIE group on fb. Pm me if you want details, many parents in similar situations.

Including me.

Yes. There is some literature out there that claims babies with autism don't have the ability to work together with the mother during birth. I.e babies need a level of social ability at that time.

I personally think that is a load of shite but.....

Star, I would agree with that sentiment!!

I also think its a load of shite... but I think that the cause of the disability was placental abruption and that also then caused the traumatic birth. I also believe that genetic causes of disability can lead to prem and traumatic birth if the mohter recognises an atypical gene pattern and this is thought to be the cause of many miscarriages. What if there was a middle ground? That the embryo was not so damaged as to cause a miscarriage but not an NT embryo.

As I said I will never prove it.

And my mother thinks you get more ill carrying boys because you aren't supposed to have male chromosomes in a female body so maybe i am bonkers

Everyone - that's interesting. Dd2's MRI shows damage due to hypoxia at birth, and we know that monitoring was inadequate and not frequent enough to have picked up earlier issues (and potential earlier delivery therefore minimizing brain damage due to hypoxia). But the unknown is whether there was anything 'different' about the foetus which meant that she was unable to cope with a normal delivery and birth.

So, the birth may have caused the brain damage due to lack of oxygen, but there may have been an underlying condition which meant that the foetus could not withstand a normal birth iyswim.

Adequate monitoring should still have picked up issues with hr and allowed for earlier (poss cs) delivery, but you can't prove negligence without a trace showing that earlier action should have been taken to deliver.

Dd2 still has cp due to a hypoxic injury at birth. But whether there was anything 'different' that meant she was more susceptible is the unknown.

In our case I think the cord was trapped at some point between her and my pelvis, cutting off her oxygen, and that this wasn't noticed because they weren't monitoring her (despite my having had a previous cs, and cfm being required by nice guidelines).

It's all supposition though. I don't think any of us will ever know, so we continue to construct theories in our heads.

ds2 was born at 28 wks by em c section in sever distress. Had all sorts of complications in SCBU struggled to maintain O2 levels, was ventilated for long periods etc etc
No cause for fetal distress was ever discovered so with ds2 it is a chicken & egg thing.
He has asd, cp, learning difficulties but has also been thoroughly tested for genetic causes as he ahs lots of markers.

DS1, term, normal delivery & entirely NT.

I have to respond.!! I think there is a connection between the birth and autism.
I have just started researching Autism (the last couple of weeks) due to the fact that it appears my 7 year old son has it, (fortunately higher functioning one).

I have five children.

The 7 year old is in the process of being diagnosed..(Birth was Face presentation, born not breathing, 60 seconds to revive).

Another child, my eldest probably has it but was under the mental health unit for panic, black-outs and other various Ailments which I now believe were symptoms of Autism...(Long dry labour)

Another of my children displays more supple symptoms...(we always called him the bird because he flapped a lot :-O .... until the research didn't realise flapping was a sign..(born with cord round neck)

The only one of my children that I am pretty confident does not have it was the one that was a water birth....So bubbly and sociable (like she's from another world comparing her ..lol :-)

Lastly I have a baby whom I'm Currently watching like a hawk!! (He's just turned one and was a face presentation birth too) He's got just one word at the moment is trying to walk and can crawl, but.... has recently started to crawl backwards, rubs head against wall and flaps one hand quite vigorously :/ what can we do?....got his one year check in two weeks and gonna make sure am referred to autism specialist. Everything i've read suggests intense therapy from as young as possible is the best remedy....:-) Have to add am quite flabbergasted by how obvious it is that the birthing process is a big factor for a LOT of the autism!!! Why do the health services not warn us, so we can look out for symptoms should we have difficult births.......and why are mums not offered more water births!!

Try googling WATER BIRTHS AND AUTISM in the same sentence!!..you get NOTHING!!!